Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Article today:

Air Force eyes fleet of 183 F-22 fighters

Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:59 PM ET
By Andrea Shalal-Esa

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley on Tuesday said he hopes to buy 183 Lockheed Martin Corp. F-22A fighter jets, four more than currently budgeted for, but still far less than the 381 the Air Force once said it needed.

Moseley said the Air Force would be able to pay for the additional jets by freezing further developments or "spirals" of the jet and rolling those funds back into the current program, with the aim of extending production -- now slated to end in 2008 -- to 2010.

"By freezing the A-model configuration, you're able to take a lot of the spiral development money, roll it back," Moseley told reporters after a briefing. "So you're not surprised with another bill down the road ... By doing that you can squeeze another four airplanes out and take you out to 2010."

He said the fighter, also known as the Raptor, would still be able to carry out the air-to-air and air-to-ground missions initially planned for the aircraft, including the ability to drop 250-pound, small-diameter bombs and 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions while flying at supersonic speeds.
With 183 jets, Moseley said he would be able to form seven combat-coded squadrons.

Asked how he could make do with so many fewer F-22As, Moseley cited the development of many capable unmanned aerial vehicles in recent years, as well as promising current work on unmanned combat aerial vehicles.
He declined to say what future capabilities would be cut from the F-22A aircraft, which he said was "within days" of being declared an operational part of the Air Force.

Moseley said the decision to cap production of F-22A fighters at less than the 381 the Air Force had planned to buy could increase the price of each fighter jet from the current level of $133 million.

That figure, which excludes $41 billion in funds already spent on research and development of the F-22A, could "go up a little," but would remain below $150 million, he said.

He defended the importance of the F-22A for U.S. troops in future wars, saying knocking out an enemy's air defenses would remain an important job.
Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne told the briefing he was committed to stretching production of the F-22A past 2008, when it is currently slated to end, until the Joint Strike Fighter, also being built by Lockheed, is expected to begin production.

He said there was growing acceptance of this idea, but not all decision-makers had given the idea their blessing yet.

Moseley said the Air Force had decided to remove the letter "A" from the first part of the fighter's designation, which had been renamed the F/A-22 under former Air Force Secretary James Roche to emphasize its ground attack capability.

"We have 'F' for fighters," Moseley said, listing current and past fighter jets such as the F-111, the F-4 and the F-16. "It should be in the lineage of the rest of the fighters."

© Reuters 2005.

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Is that enough?

Ducatist,

I suggest you ask the guys in the five sided pointy building…

"Ducatist" is that in respect my "Duck - a - tie"? Cool

Ducatist,

They want to fill the gap with UAVs Shrug

...

Of course, we could always get the Government into beer production and use the profits for more Raptors Cheers

!!!

If the USAF wants 381, why dont they extend the production line past 2010? Just keep buying small batches of the Raptor until enough money rolls around to where you can order larger amounts. I understand that the Air Force has other programs and priorities that need money, but I dont see the reasoning behind closing the production line after 183 examples in 2010 if they want the fighter so bad. Other programs the Air Force has going on must end in or before 2010, so wouldnt that free up some extra money for more Raptors?

Anyone have any idea on who the lucky 5 or 6 squadrons will be who get raptors? We know Tyndall will have a few for training, Nellis for Weapons School, and Edwards for testing. Unless they reduced the normal size of the sqaudron there will be like 5 full squadrons of F-22s... the 27th has an operational deployment capability to send 12 go to war airplanes. I know that to have 24 F-16s ready for go to war operations, you need close to 30 airframes, as stuff breaks and what not. Anyone know what the ratio is for the F-22? Also, does anyone else see the AF reducing F-22 squadron numbers to like 15 or so, and have more squadrons, or will they stick with the current number and only have a few squadrons?

Ducatist, just to clarify. Is a name that comes from being a Ducati rider, in Italy they call us a Ducatist,or Ducatisti. Very Happy

Sniper69 wrote:

If the USAF wants 381, why don't they extend the production line past 2010? Just keep buying small batches of the Raptor until enough money rolls around to where you can order larger amounts. I understand that the Air Force has other programs and priorities that need money, but I don't see the reasoning behind closing the production line after 183 examples in 2010 if they want the fighter so bad. Other programs the Air Force has going on must end in or before 2010, so wouldn't that free up some extra money for more Raptors?

Unfortunately, acquisition nor production lines work this way. Small batches become so expensive that it no longer makes sense, After all, if you only build, say 5 a year, what do you do with resources the remaining 8 months out of the year.

Besides, just because the USAF wants it doesn't mean Congress wants it, and we can only procure what they authorize and appropriate funds for.

Hmmm AT 133 million a pop you could buy 6 F-16's per Raptor.

Fill the sky with F-16's and the raptor has no chance. You don't need stealth when so many F-16's are in the sky you could see the raptor! Two Cents

Hmmm AT 133 million a pop you could buy 6 F-16's per Raptor.

Fill the sky with F-16's and the raptor has no chance. You don't need stealth when so many F-16's are in the sky you could see the raptor! Two Cents

From todays defensenews.com

USAF May Delay F-15 Retirement
By Michael Fabey

The U.S. Air Force is rethinking plans to retire its F-15 fighters because it is slated to receive only about half the number of F-22A Raptors it had expected, said Gen. Ronald Keys, chief of Air Combat Command.

The service, which is slated to buy 181 Raptors, had planned to retire many of its F-15 fighters in the coming decade, Keys said.

Now, it will have to replace the engines and upgrade more F-15s than planned. Even with that, he said, some of the airframes themselves will eventually become too old.

As for the Raptor, Keys said planes in future blocks will receive planned improvements to radar, communications and weapons.

Keys also announced the F-22A’s formal entry into service.

I heard rumors that Kadena gets the Raptor. It would make sense to get USAFE and PACAF each one squadron so that you have at least one ready on each half of the globe for immediate operations. Then of course, Tyndall, Langely, Nellis and Edwards as stated. But for the roles above I'm sure theyll all have reduced numbers than normal. I can also see one west coast AFB getting a squadron.

-Aaron

Raptors for Lakenheath!!!! Wink

That would make the security there even more twitchy... The UK has a very big spotting community; at Lakenheath if we cross the road and actually stand NEXT to the fence we get a nice american in a Hummer with an M-16 telling us to P*** off! Oh and sometimes they send the police "Pilots are reporting you are pointing something at their aircraft"...

I would of thought a pilot and base security (entire perimeter covered by CCTV and laser motion barriers) could tell the difference between a camera with a 12inch lens on and a 6ft long Stinger/Igla????

Although what we are hearing is that Lakenheath may close and the entire 48th move to eastern europe Sad

Andy

Thanks Roscoe!

Elmendorf is supposed to be getting a sqauadron too. I think Guam was being thrown around as a possiblilty as well.

229guy wrote:

Hmmm AT 133 million a pop you could buy 6 F-16's per Raptor.

Fill the sky with F-16's and the raptor has no chance. You don't need stealth when so many F-16's are in the sky you could see the raptor! Two Cents

Not really, it's more like 4 F-16's at that rate. F-16's have gotten more costly over the years; like 30mil per copy.

A Raptor can pick off F-16's (or just about any fighter) out of the sky all day long, or untill it is out of Missles.

Mike V

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Airforce want 183 raptors...