Forum: Civil and General Aviation

you guys are killing me with your stylized fantasies LMAO

not that i wouldn't want to take part

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Oh heck yeah...They've got quite a collection down in Cape Town. The last (to my knowledge) Lightning, Buc, and Hunter still flying.

I'd have to go with the Lightning myself. Boff, would you happen to know how many Pounds a ride in the Lightning would cost?

Not the last hunters mate... theres quite a few in private hands here in the UK Wink

Anyway prices....

Lightning = R 87,000 = US$13,334 = £7,757
Buccaneer = R 57,000 = US$8,736 = £5,082
Hunter = R 30,500 = US$4,674 = £2,719

Andy

Oh wow! Was not aware that there were more Hunters flying. Well, good on the Brits that keep 'em flying! Guiness

I knew JR's friend Sharkbait was unfortunately killed in a Hunter, but was unaware exactly whom the owner was.

Yeah, I'd like to save up a good $15K and "Ride the Lightning!" I've had two rides in the Viper, but the Lightning was a dream plane for me as a youngster. Thanks for the pricing info!

BTW, does anyone know when the Vulcan Restoration Trust is planning on getting their Vulcan off the ground? I know it has done several high speed taxis, but I haven't heard any word on when they'll actually pull back on the stick.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

UH OH!...

Warbirds, NOW You're Talkin' My Language!!!

I'm going to boggle your mind as to what you can get with $$$!!

I'm a member of the CJAA (Classic Jets Aircraft Association)
http://www.classicjets.org

TC,
There is a a company here in the US called AALO. (Anglo American Lightning Organisation. They're based in Mississippi & are doing a dynamite job with XS422!
http://www.lightningusa.org/index.html

There's also a great guy who comes to our West Coast "Fly-In's" called Bob Guilford aka GOD! Who has a beautiful Mk.58 Hunter, Bob is the Chairman of the CJAA & just about every aircraft association! He's rated in more Warbirds than anyone i've ever met!

•F4U Corsair (FG-1D, F4U-4, F4U-7)
•Spitfire (Mk IX & Mk XIV)
•F8F Bearcat
•P-51 Mustang
•T-6
•T-28
•AD Skyraider
•Hawker Sea Fury
•Soko Galeb
•Hawker Hunter

There are TOO MANY, MiG-15's/17's & 19's to even mention, I know of at least 30!

Chuck Thornton, is a great friend & basically... IS THE MAN!! Check out whats in his collection!!!
http://www.thorntonaircraft.com/main.cfm

Air Assets Inc, are based in Illinois & have the only two registered MiG-29s legal for flight in the United States.
(No registered web site!)

You all know crazy Joe Gano he's a MAJOR MiG Man, he based out of Delaware & currently has L-39 & L-59s, 2 MiG-21s & 2 MiG-23 Floggers (Currently the fastest privately owned aircraft on earth! MACH 2.34 I think it is.)
http://www.warbirdsofdelaware.com/

Flogger Town USA is based out of Oklahoma, they have 12 MiG-23s 8 of which are finishing up their IRAN & FAA inspections. Andy said they should be flying by next summer.
(No Website)

Mike Landa is a cool guy I know that has two MiG-29s & a MiG-21 he's in Illinois to.

A guy down in Key West is having his MiG-29 put together by a Czech team currently that should be the third legally flying MiG-29 in the US sometime next sumer he said.

Steve Gilcrist down in Sarasota is having a MiG-23 put through its IRAN before thats ready to go. I'll see if I can get some pictures.

If anyone here has got a spare $2.7M, make sure you get the MiG-29UB or UM, so I can sit in the back now & again!! Moscow Aircraft Company are the Daddy's for import if you've got the $$$!
http://www.moscowaircraft.com/
ALL the people I know who have current or future flying MiGs have gone through Moscow Aircraft. They take care of most of the headaches associated with the DoD & the end user agreements & import licenses you have to have.
Theres ALOT of paperwork getting your MiG into the country (which costs about $400,000 on an IL-76!) let alone getting it flying!

You've got to have deep pockets to be able to fund this by yourself!

Most people are bringing MiGs to the USA to make money. DACT is BIG BUSINESS for compaines like ATSI & ATAC. If you had 8 MiG-29s and flew out in California you'd be a millionaire in 6 weeks! You've got to find the initial capital which isn't a small chunk of change!

ATAC is headed by a great friend of many years! ATAC fly the F-35 Draken & the F-21 A&B KFIR! Thats a sweet little airforce Matt's got up there in Newport News.
http://atacusa.com/

ATSI has a heap of TA-4J's & A-4's & Jon & Co. are headed in the private sector JSUPT direction. Which IS MAJOR MONEY from foreign governtments! They like ATAC run DACT for the Navy & Air Force.
http://www.atsifightertraining.com/aboutus.html

Of course if you just want to light your hair on fire... call my neighbour Greg who works for Incredible Adventures he's their MiG expert, & for a measly $10,000 you can go fly the 29! I'd like to get me a ride in that Su-27!

(Sorry for the cheap plug!)

Anyway if we've got Warbird questions shoot them my way! I've had many jets rides from these kind folk!

To throw in my two cents....

I'd throw the opportunity away to fly in anything! To own a P-51...

THAT is the sexiest looking thing that EVER flew IMHO!
The RR Merlin still is the only sound that makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck & puts a sh*t eating grin on my face everytime!!

Tyger,

Welcome to the Board!

You missed the Worlds Fastest Airshow Team that has been operating out of PIE, across the bay from Tampa, since 1996. Here’s a pic of an F-104 speedo at 2.25…. Regretfully on this mission when Sharkbait set the squadron record at Mach 2.5 they didn’t get a pic from the inside!

Y’all want to talk about an organization that has a great group of IP’s and look at the Board of Directors for this group. Exclamation

http://www.redstaraviation.org is another location that does a professional job as their president is Dave Sutton. A former Airline and Corporate Pilot with Type Ratings in 7 different transport jets, Dave is a full time Instructor Pilot and Designated Examiner on the Falcon 2000EX-EASy and 900EX-Easy and holds Designated Examiner status from both the US FAA and the European JAA in these aircraft. A Classic Jet owner/operator for over 15 years, he has worked as a Military Contract Pilot in several models of surplus tactical aircraft and is a FAA Designated Experimental Aircraft Examiner in:

L-29
L-39
Fouga Magister
DeHavilland Venom
DeHavilland Vampire
MiG-15
MiG-17
MiG-21
T-33
T-28
P-51

As well as being rated in the:

CASA Saeta
Jet Provost
Hawker Hunter

Dave holds an A&P license in addition to his flight credentials and is an FAA Designated Accident Prevention Counselor. He is a Member of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots.

Honorary Board of Directors:

Red Star Aviation is honored to have three men serving its Honorary Board of Directors, men who are most properly called Heroes.

Col. Jack Broughton, USAF (ret). Jack received his pilots’ wings and a second lieutenant commission at West Point on June 5, 1945 and served in the Air Force until 1968, when he retired with the rank of Colonel. After flying 114 combat missions in Korea, he took command of the USAF Thunderbirds, and after flying on the team with the F-84, he flew the first supersonic Thunderbird aircraft, the F-100. After earning his Masters Degree in International Affairs from the National War College, with work done at George Washington University, he served as the Vice Commander of the Thailand-based 355th Tactical Fighter Wing and flew 102 missions against North Viet Nam in the F-105. A recipient of the Air Force Cross for Extraordinary Heroism, he authored the classic books “Thud Ridge”, and “Going Downtown”, mandatory reading for those interested in the air war over Viet Nam. During his career he has been qualified in the P-47, P-80, F-84, F-100, F-101, F-106, and F-105.

Board of Advisors:

Capt. Winston Scott, USN (ret), NASA Astronaut (former). Winston entered Naval Aviation Officer Candidate School after graduation from Florida State University in December 1972. He completed flight training in fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft and was designated a Naval Aviator in August 1974. He then served a 4-year tour of duty with Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron Light Thirty Three (HSL-33) at the Naval Air Station (NAS) North Island, California, flying the SH-2F Light Airborne Multi-Purpose System (LAMPS) helicopter. In 1978 Scott was selected to attend the Naval Postgraduate School at Monterey, California, where he earned his MS in aeronautical engineering with avionics. After completing jet training in the TA-4J Skyhawk, Scott served a tour of duty with Fighter Squadron Eighty Four (VF-84) at NAS Oceana, Virginia, flying the F-14 Tomcat. He served as a production test pilot at the Naval Aviation Depot, NAS Jacksonville, Florida, flying the F/A-18 Hornet and the A-7 Corsair aircraft. As a research and development project pilot, he flew the F-14, F/A-18 and A-7 aircraft. He was selected by NASA in March 1992, and reported to the Johnson Space Center in August 1992. He served as a mission specialist on STS-72 in 1996 and STS-87 in 1997, and has logged a total of 24 days, 14 hours and 34 minutes in space, including 3 spacewalks totaling 19 hours and 26 minutes. STS-72 Endeavour (January 11-20, 1996) was a 9-day flight during which the crew retrieved the Space Flyer Unit satellite. The mission was accomplished in 142 orbits of the Earth, traveling 3.7 million miles, and logged him a total of 214 hours and 41 seconds in space, including his first EVA of 6 hours and 53 minutes. STS-87 (November 19 to December 5, 1997) was the fourth U.S Microgravity Payload flight, and focused on experiments designed to study how the weightless environment of space affects various physical processes, and on observations of the Sun's outer atmospheric layers. Scott performed two spacewalks. The first, a 7 hour 43 minute EVA featured the manual capture of a Spartan satellite, in addition to testing EVA tools and procedures for future Space Station assembly. The second spacewalk lasted 5 hours and also featured space station assembly tests. The mission was accomplished in 252 Earth orbits, traveling 6.5 million miles in 376 hours and 34 minutes. Mr. Scott retired from NASA and the U.S. Navy at the end of July 1999 to accept a position at his alma mater, Florida State University, as Vice President for Student Affairs. Winston is rated in and regularly flies the L-39.

Cdr. Dave “Pappy” Culbertson, USN (ret). After graduating with Distinction from the U.S. Naval Academy with a BS in Ocean Engineering David “Pappy” Culbertson served in the U.S. Navy for over 20 years as an operational fighter pilot, developmental and production test pilot, instructor pilot, and as an aeronautical engineering and weapons systems acquisition program manager. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School and earned his MS in Aviation Systems from the University of Tennessee. He served over five years as instructor pilot and Chief Flight Instructor at the United States Naval Test Pilot School. Qualified in the F/A-18, T-2C, U-6A Beaver, and X-26A sailplane, he instructed in all fixed wing flight mechanics and airborne systems flight exercises, including stall/spin, low altitude Night Vision Goggle and soaring. After retiring as a Commander, David Culbertson joined the faculty at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, FL as an Assistant Professor of Aeronautical Science, teaching aeronautics, aerodynamics and aircraft performance. He is also the Director of Flight Test at Embry-Riddle’s Aeronautical Engineering Research Center. He has piloted over 55 types of aircraft including fighters, trainers, bombers, business turboprops and jets, helicopters, gliders, seaplanes, and vintage Warbirds. His FAA aviation credentials include Airline Transport Pilot Airplane Multi-Engine, Commercial Pilot- Airplane Single Engine / Glider, and Flight Instructor. He’s is an active member of Aircraft Owners and Pilot Association (AOPA), Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA), National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI) and International Aerobatic Club (IAC). Pappy has flown the Fouga Magister, L-39, and MiG-21 as well as several other Classic Jets. He is an Associate Fellow of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots.

Capt. Robert Stoney, USN (ret). A retired Naval Aviator and former Commanding Officer of the United States Naval Test Pilot School, Bob is currently serving as a Test Pilot for the FAA’s Wichita Aircraft Certification Office where he has been a project pilot for the certification of the Hawker Horizon, Cessna’s Sovereign and CJ-3, the Garmin G1000 Avionics suite and numerous other programs. Bob’s previous flight experience includes 22 years as a Naval Aviator and Test Pilot, including tours as the Chief Flight Instructor and Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School, where he was qualified to instruct in every fixed-wing aircraft from gliders, to tail-draggers, to fast jets and the P-3 Orion. Bob achieved a Master’s Degree from the Naval Postgraduate School in Aeronautical Engineering. He has accumulated 6500 flight hours in over 150 different models and holds FAA Airline Transport (with 7 type ratings), glider and seaplane ratings. Bob’s personal interests include sailing, soaring, and coaching. Bob has flown the Fouga Magister, L-39, and several other Classic Jets. He is a Member of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots.

Major Nils Larson, USAF. Nils is a graduate of the USAF Test Pilots School and is a former exchange instructor to the USN Test Pilots School. He was formerly a U-2 operational squadron pilot, and now serves as a Test Pilot on the U-2 program. He flies everything between gliders and fighters and has flown Classic Jets to include the Fouga Magister, L-39, MiG-15, and CASA Saeta. Nils is a Member of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots, and serves on their membership committee.

Major John Huggins, USAF. Holding a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from the University of Texas at Austin and a Masters of Aeronautical Science from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, John “Huggy” Huggins is a serving USAF pilot presently flying the U-2 “Dragon Lady” operationally from an overseas location. He has 2800 hours in the T-38 as an Instructor and Pilot, and is currently the high-time USAF active duty T-38 pilot. He has 1800 hours in the U-2. , As a U-2 pilot, he was a U-2 mission pilot and instructor/demo pilot at RAF Alconbury, UK, in Desert Shield/Storm he flew the opening U-2 combat mission on Day 1, and was the first pilot to fly a U-2 mission over Bosnia-Herzegovia. He was the Commander of a U-2 squadron located in Saudi Arabia during combat operations in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Flew 11+ hour combat mission in support of ground troops at commencement of hostilities. Huggy holds FAA Experimental Aircraft authorizations in the T-38, F-5, and T-33 and has flown the T-37 and other USAF aircraft. He has been involved with Classic Jets since 1995 and holds FAA Authorized Instructor ratings in the T-38 and F-5, and is an ATP AMEL, Comm ASEL, and Advanced Ground Instructor.

Hey JR Thanks Man!

Yeah the Star Fighters team are always out! GREAT TEAM! LOVED the MacDill Demo last year!
Hey i'm like 10 miles from PIE, I'm ready to go flying in that spare back seat you've got!

Red Star is high on my list of priorities to go visit next year!

LOL! Huggy!.. Haven't seen him for a while, would love to get to see Chuck & get my T-38 ETR with Huggy! Just don't have the spare cash & FedEx Ain't hiring so i'm SOL!!

Theres another HUGE ex USAF outfit in Santa Fe but I can't remember the name. They've got an ex Tracor Flight Services F-100D around somewhere I think. I only saw the Super Sabre once & nearly sh*t myself when he lit the burner I thought he was pickling snakeyes on the RWY! It goes BANG!!

Oh yeah, how could I forget!..

A new outfit in Washington State, Alpha Jets USA! These babies look sweet! I could have some fun scaring the cruise ships in the Gulf with one of those!
http://www.alphajetsusa.com/index.htm

I Love this country!!! Laughing

Right then, i'm off to AMARC to pick me up an F-4! Can't have that Colings Foundation running the show!

TC wrote:

Oh wow! Was not aware that there were more Hunters flying. Well, good on the Brits that keep 'em flying! Guiness

I knew JR's friend Sharkbait was unfortunately killed in a Hunter, but was unaware exactly whom the owner was.

Yeah, I'd like to save up a good $15K and "Ride the Lightning!" I've had two rides in the Viper, but the Lightning was a dream plane for me as a youngster. Thanks for the pricing info!

BTW, does anyone know when the Vulcan Restoration Trust is planning on getting their Vulcan off the ground? I know it has done several high speed taxis, but I haven't heard any word on when they'll actually pull back on the stick.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

VRT's Vulcan is destined to be a fast taxi job only...

However Vulcan to The Sky's example (XH588, the last Vulcan to leave service) will fly in 2006 thanks to a lottery grant and BAE Systems backing. It is invisiged she'll do the airshow circuit for 10 years and then retire to a museum.

The UK do have a number of warbird jets however the CAA doesn't like military jet technology in civilian hands and thinks its dangerous... hence you don't see any 1960's aircraft.
But whats operating in the UK privately at airshows.etc is:
- Hawker Hunters (single and 2 seat)
- DeHavilland Vampires
- DeHAvilland Venoms
- DeHavilland Sea Vixen (in an awful Red Bull scheme)
- Gloster Meteors
- F-86 Sabre
- T-33's
- Mig-15 (this may have moved to the states though haven't seen it for a few years)
- Jet Provosts
- Strikemasters
- Hawker Sea Hawk (operated by the Royal Navy).

The CAA have recently refused applications for civilian Lightnings and Buccaneers from flying at airshows, or generally flying at all there are approx 4 Lightnings airworthy in the UK that are grounded and atleast 2 Buccaneers that I know of.

However a private company based at the famous RAF Scampton (dambusters raid base and also base of the red arrows) called Hawker Hunter Aviation have a few specials up their sleaves.... They contract out their Hunters (they have a fleet of about 10) to act as target towers, cruise missiles, agressor aircraft.etc however if required "supersonic targets" are needed they have 2 airworthy gems sitting in their hanger.
- 1 Buccaneer - with buddy-buddy refuelling pod.
- 1 Su-22M4 - this is kept airworthy!
http://www.hunterteam.com

Andy

Back to the civil flying of a MiG-23. What kind of issues are associated with care and feeding of the swing wing setup over time? Do you have to find some ex MiG-23 maintainer to give you good tips or ...who do you call in...to do basic (for lack of better terms.... ISO and phase ) stuff?

elp,

You create your written maintenance program, then get your local FSDO to approve it, and congratulations you just created your program for hour or annual inspections. By using an existing AF manual as your reference you can normally get it approved by the Feds doing standard 25, 50, and 100 hour inspections. Since it is experimental, any FAA mechanic can legally work on it.

FSDO “A” may require 1/10 the work of FSDO “B”, just depends who is doing the approvals. That is a real issue as there is no consistency between FSDOs. That's why some aircraft of the exact same model have jettisonable bags, and some don’t…

May I plead ignorance here, and ask exactly what the wing-sweep mechanism on the Flogger is like? Is it a manual wing-sweep lever (early F-111 technology) or an auto-with-manual-override sweep (ala, the F-14)? BTW, did the F-111s ever go to an auto wing-sweep like the Tomcats?

Anyway, thanks Boff for that info on the Vulcan. Sorry the VRT bird won't get off the ground, but I am glad the other bird will fly. No doubt, we will be seeing her at Farnborough, and other high-profile UK displays. I can't wait!

Tyger, Bienvenido from a fellow Floridian! I'm up in Eagle and Raptor country here in NW FL. Thanks for that info on the civie MiGs. I need to start saving my cash, although I'd still like to see how much JR will charge me for a ride in the 104. Cool

Ah, the sound of the single-staged burner light on the Hun! You're bringing back some good memories there, amigo! I was here at Tyndall through the duration of the QF-100 program. I loved (and miss) the sound the Huns and the Sixes made on takeoff. A very nice sounding BOOM!

As much as I miss the Century Series here, I can now watch the Phantoms...

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Hey TC! Where in the Pan Handle?

I've got to go to Tyndall & Eglin in February! I'm going to go play with the F-15 West Team. "Ahhh those equipment neccessary flight tests!" I'm off to the 2nd FS at Tyndall to get my new Life Support Gear (helmet, mask, vest, g-suit etc..) fitted & tested. Before taking a ride in the "Spin & Puke!" & getting in some sim time.

I'm trying to get over to the 43rd to see the Raptor.
I just want a picture next to it, without the damn airshow crowd in the background!

Well TC let me tell ya, you might see a hun sometime in the future.
I'm trying to get a group of us together to buy one, right now we're about $90-100,000 short, we need some more investors or sponsorship. It's a F-100F that needs some TLC, but if we can pull it off i'll happily take you for a spin!

Tyger, I'm in Panama City. I'm a fmr. AFRC Life Support troop. I remember the fit checks religiously! Razz

Why are they making you go to Brooks and get fitted for Combat Edge for incentive rides? That's different. Back in my day (which ended in Mar. '03) the incentive riders wore 12/Ps and speed jeans. 16/Ps and "Combat Sweat" were only for the flyboys. When I first plugged myself into the tester with Combat Edge, I felt like the Michelin Man. Even though I had access to the equipment, I didn't get to wear it on my 2 rides in the Viper.

I would LOVE to have a ride in the Hun! Just don't make it do the "Sabre Dance" on me! Wink

When you make it to PC, drop me a PM, and we can go grab some jet fuel (the drinkable variety, that is!).

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Combat Edge! YUK!.. No thanks.
The CSU-17/P is horrible, I think it was actually designed just to annoy pilots! Its hot & never made the G's more tolerable.

*EDIT*
LOL! Just saw what you typed dude! Sorry for not making it clear... I'm going to Brooks Early in Feb. to take the "Spin & Puke."
Once i'm done, a great TSGT who's a ALS troop at the 2nd FS at Tyndall who was kind enough to accommodate me to get my new gear for my L-39 flying fitted & tested, along with a couple other briefs on the use of the signaling devices & the PCU-10/P Lowering Device.
I'm going to Eglin to see "Deuce" because he was the first guy to approach me interested in the "Thunderbirds Style" chrome visor. It took me the best part of 9 months to get this damn visor approved by Wright Patt! Now every single Demo Team in the USAF wants one!! These things cost a fortune, but hey its worth it to go hang out around the Viper & Eagle for a couple of days!

My "Personal Gear" is the HGU-55/P & MBU-20/P HA/LP. I'm flying with the CRU-60 not the CE 94. I had a combat edge helmet & HATED IT! I've still got the -12/P & think it still looks cooler than the -20/P!
Just recently got a new helmet & mask from Gentex & haven't had them on the test set yet. I want someone who knows what the hell they're doing making sure my harness, mask & helmet are PROPERLY fitted!
I can't wear my gear for an incentive ride, even though its BRAND NEW! I'm guessing i'll have the good 'ol MBU-12/P, but i'm wearing MY helmet! Smile

So we can test this new Chrome Visor I've got for the Demo Teams to fly with.

Take a look at my new stuff here...
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-49-start-90.html
Scroll down a little & you'll see my new '05/'06 stuff.

Hell yes i'll look you up! I'll bring Jeremiah & the 20MM's!! Laughing

You wanna go for a ride in the SIM? I'm sure I can get you hooked you up!

Oh TC forgot to mention, you may like to know that there will be a Sea Harrier FA.2 on the American airshow circuit soon....

A private operator has got hold of the SHAR that has the least hours on it (the final test bird delivered in 1998!!!) and plans to fly it in the states at airshows Smile

Damn you MoD retired our beloved SHAR!!!! Sad

Andy

What? Sea Harrier is retired? D@mn. I didn't know that. So, the GR.7s are the only Harrier ticket left in the UK?

It will be cool to see the Sea Harrier fly here though. I've never seen a Brit Harrier in person, but I have seen the USMC birds AV-8As and Bs several times. It puts on a cool demo at Fort Lauderdale. She'll come in low over the water, and briefly hover. It looks cool to see the water pushed down and out by the nozzles! Very Happy

Ok Tyger, I copy now. When you said "vest", I instinctively thought about Combat Sweat. Yeah, that stuff isn't too cool (literally) in Panama City, or Miami, I found out! Laughing

Besides, it would be a major PITA to build the CE stuff up, just for a few incentive rides.

Were you previously AF? If you've ever flown your L-39 at Tyndall, then I've seen you fly before. Pretty cool little jet. I'd suspect the ride would be somewhat like the BAe Hawk.

I took a look at your gear, and I'm curious...The Thunderbirds want this new visor setup too? If so, that would mean going to the 55/P helmets...but the 55/Ps aren't supposed to be painted. I believe the Thunderbirds presently fly with 33/Ps.

Hell yeah, I'd love a ride in the sim! I'd love an incentive ride even more Wink

, but the sim would be great!

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Forum: Civil and General Aviation

Mig-21 and Mig-23 for lease in US