Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

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In a cavernous airplane hangar in Quincy, Illinois, two hours south of Chicago, Don Kirlin paces beneath the gold hammer and sickle of a large Soviet flag. Around him are the military bulwarks of the once-formidable Evil Empire: four Czech Aero Vodochody L-59 Super Albatross fighter jets, perched in two rows. In another Kirlin hangar next door sits a Soviet MiG-21 Mongol, the bane of US pilots in Vietnam. Outside, on the flight line, are seven Czech L-39s, still bearing red Communist stars. And just beyond them, almost invisible in dusky-gray and sky-blue paint, two MiG-29 Fulcrums. The pride of the hallowed Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, the Russian equivalent of Lockheed Martin, the Fulcrum has a top speed of Mach 2.4 - hundreds of miles per hour faster than an American F-16 Eagle or F/A-18 Hornet - and remains one of Russia's preeminent fighters.

For more, see: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.1 ... topic_set=

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Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

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The pride of the hallowed Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, the Russian equivalent of Lockheed Martin, the Fulcrum has a top speed of Mach 2.4 - hundreds of miles per hour faster than an American F-16 Eagle or F/A-18 Hornet - and remains one of Russia's preeminent fighters.

and

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Once I heard those numbers I just had to become the only person to own the biggest, baddest, fastest machine in the world. Me, chasing the clouds in the purest power machine out there. I had to have one.

Awww, leave it to ignorant journalists. It's faster so obviously it's totally better! There you have it folks. You can stop the F-16 vs MiG-29 threads, because Carl Hoffman says the MiG is hundreds of miles an hour faster. Case closed. Also, this just in: The F-16 is now known as the "Eagle". Mods, please update this site to reflect that. Rolling Eyes

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"Gone are the days and tactics of the movie Top Gun, where you had to turn and burn and get behind 'em to shoot 'em down," says Eric Petersen, adversary requirements officer at the Naval Air Forces Headquarters in San Diego.

Woah, woah woah. The Navy is admitting that they previously subscribed to the "tactics" portrayed in Top Gun?! Yeesh, poor squids. Very Happy

It is an interesting story, I'd like to have that guy's disposable income! Hell I'd give my left nut to own a (maintainence paid) MiG-29. I might even start telling myself its the fastest, best plane ever made too. Very Happy

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

Yeah I saw many of those errors as well. Figure'd you guys would get a kick out of reading it. It says that he helps the military in training. How does this work, he gets his jets then approaches the military and says, hey I have some MiG's? How many americans actually know how to crew a MiG, or where can they go to learn?

A USAF pilot flew with the German airforce and qualified on the Fulcrum. I read that somewhere on this forum.... There is a rumour the US covertly "got hold" of some other Russian jets to evaluate them, just a rumour!!!!

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

My friend was in the marines, and in some hangar he saw a Russian Hind (Mi-24?)helocopter. Had army markings on it.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Oh no, not a rumor. The US has several Soviet airframes, aquired mostly from defectors. Chuck Yeager was a test pilot evaluating the MiG-15 back in the day. Supposedly one of Groom Lake's functions was to house those aircraft.

Yes, an Army unit in Mississippi flies the Hinds. They actually get more flying hours in the Hind per month, than any Hind unit in the world.

snypa777 wrote:

There is a rumour the US covertly "got hold" of some other Russian jets to evaluate them, just a rumour!!!!

Not just a rumor amigo. I cite the following evidence:

HAVE DOUGHNUT = Evaluation program of the MiG-17

HAVE DRILL = Evaluation program of the MiG-21

CONSTANT PEG = Evaluation and DACT with MiG-23s

Here's a link to an old thread. I welcome anyone to revive it, as it was very interesting.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... art-0.html

Back in the 90s, the US purchased MiG-29s from former Soviet states, and from what I understand, we've purchased the MiG-29s which formerly belonged to the Luftwaffe.

We have a 23 and a 29 stowed at Tyndall, but they don't fly. They do, however, bring them out for display at the annual airshow. How they came to be at Tyndall is an oft-debated topic.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Heck, I was at a job fair here at Purdue and there was a booth for a reverse engineering job at Wright Pat. They pretty much took other countries stuff and reverse engineered everything in it. They didn't like me for the job, but I definitely got a pamphlet and they had a Mig-29 right in it. We're not exactly closed about have Soviet junk.

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer!!!

Wonder what other Russian millitary equipment you sneaky guys have Shocked

Maybe Clancy was right and there is a HUGE submarine full of SLBMs hidden away somewhere. That wouln`t surprise me, remember the Glomar explorer? Wink

Ah well..thats for some guys to know and most of us not to hear a damned thing about! Shrug

Actually... the US used to have an entire aggressor squadron of soviet jets. I cant remember many details on it and its still very hush hush according to the book Wings of Fury. But basically... the only info you can find availble on it now was that a handful of pilots and crew serviced and flew a set of various migs north of nellis AFB out of a few bunkers and a trailor home. They would bring various squadrons to nellis for training where the pilots would brief them on red air tactics with different jets and then they would drive back to their trailor, gear up, and make a fight with the blue air. The actual location of the exercises is still undisclosed but i think its a pretty neat story. In the back of Wings of Fury they had a portrait of all the pilots sitting in a humvee or something on the range. I also remember them saying something like "The Mig-23 is a piece of trash. We arent even going to instruct you how to beat it because if you get shot down by it you deserve it." I guess the aim of the program was to dismantle the initial shock pilots build up the first time they see a foreign fighter coming at them.

Also... I know we had a Mig-29 at Wright Patt once for a small period of time. It was put in the museam for just one weekend for spectators to see before it was hastfully removed. Interesting...

-Aaron

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Back in the 90s, the US purchased MiG-29s from former Soviet states, and from what I understand, we've purchased the MiG-29s which formerly belonged to the Luftwaffe.

The MIG-29`s where bought from Moldovia, first and foremost because Iran was beginning to show an very keen interest in them, second because these where nuclear capabal Mig-29C`s. The USAF acquired some 12-14 of wich 2 are Mig-29UM (two seaters) and they were dismantled and flown in C-17`s to the USA.
Here is the link: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_281.shtml Even includes photos of Mig-29`s on US soil !

As for the Mig-29`s of the Luftwaffe, these were sold to Poland to keep their strenght untill the F-16C was ready for delivery. Poland is about to retire all Mig-29`s once the Vipers are operational in sufficient numbers.

As for the agressor squadrons that the USAF operated, this was back in the `70s. I believe I`ve read somewhere that the attrition rate combined with a lack of spares forced them to be replaced with western fighters wich could easily mimick the tricks and trades of the former east block fighters - just look at the use of the F-5 as agressor!

http://area51specialprojects.com/migs.html

Go read it Very Happy

! Good stuff from the guys who were there at Groom and saw the "red jets." Also try doing a google search on US MiGs and you'll find all sorts of good stuff.

I'd like a MiG-29 someday, but I'd probably actually prefer to own something like a Tomcat, Zipper, Thud, or Double Ugly - they're LOUD and FAST and AMERICAN!

I'd sell my soul to own my own F-105 and have a slave crew of maintainers.

(Though this'd never happen. Imagine if civilians could go severely supersonic... Mach 2 on the deck severely supersonic.)

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(Though this'd never happen. Imagine if civilians could go severely supersonic... Mach 2 on the deck severely supersonic.)

Dude, have you forgotten about the Starfighters Wink

? Those 104s can go pretty fast - just ask JR! Of course, there's also the Collings Foundation's F-4, F-5s, T-38s and at least a few MiG-21s in civilian hands as well. Civilians can only go supersonic over land if they are on a DOD contract and in a supersonic Military Operating Area. Now, civvies in fast movers aren't exactly smiled upon by the FAA to begin with, so nobody's about to go and break rules like that!

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the Fulcrum has a top speed of Mach 2.4

My ALPHA!!!!!! What a tractor like POS!!!

shiz302,

Yes I personally know him, and also know that those aircraft will never get certified under current ownership. He owns the company that owned and maintained the Mig-21 that came apart and killed Doug Schultz, the original owner of Stallion 51, a former Navy F-4 driver.

Dammerung,

Nothing will go Mach 2 on the deck, not even anything flying out north of sin city, nothing… The current world low altitude record was set by a former Lockheed Test Pilot, civilian Darryl Greenamyer, in a civilian F-104 back in 1977 at 988.26 mph. Darryl, who happens to be a cool dude, went over 1,000 mph on the runs before that record, but the French time keepers had problems with their equipment so he had to do the runs again later when it had warmed up.

Paul Allen owns an F-105 that was under restoration to flyable status.

TC,

One of the Mig-29C's with my little sister beside it after her flight to W-P in one of our F-104s.

The Mig-29, what a POS, look at this tractor crap hanging out in the air stream!!!

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Anyone heard of this guy? U.S. civvy MiG owner..