Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

What are possible forseeable upgrades that might be done to the -22? For example, would there be increased bay size and better radar? Would become a ground pounder the Eagle became? Will it become a UCAV based on the existing frame?

BTW This makes 100 posts asking silly questions and giving unfounded opinions... go me.

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Radars are routinely upgraded...increasing the weapons bay size would be a major structural redesign and is highly unlikely to ever happen.

One of the easiest (though not cheapest probably) would be to add the side arrays for the radar. The F/A-22 was suppose to have THREE radar arrays and the spots are still there for them. The are essentially empty compartments to the rear of the radome on the lower side. I've looked at the high res photos on the net and even knowing where to look you can't see where they'd go as the gaps in the skin are smoothed over under the paint. Jay Miller's new book on the Raptor has some great shots though so you can see exactly where they'll go. They're not as big as the APG-77's array (obviously) which brings up an interesting question. Will there be seperate radars ie THREE APG-77s or will it just seem to the existing APG-77 that it got a bigger array?

Supposedly the spots still exit for the IRST also but I don't have a clue where those would be. As for weapons we could probably speculate all day. There's the UCAV I mentioned in another thread but that's the only one I'm aware of that is Raptor specific.

LordOfBunnies wrote:

What are possible forseeable upgrades that might be done to the -22?

There are several changes that will be made:

An array IR system will be added in 2008. It will be one IR detector just under the radar antenna and one in each wing root.
Thrust in the engine will be increased.
An "electro-magnetic pulse" generator to fry the electronics of the enemy will also be added. I am not sure whether this will happen in 2008 or 2011.

These are the three I know of but, there are many more I have read about. It has been all planned out, what improvements will be added and when.

Adrian

an EMP weapon? How could the pilot use it and not fry his own electronics?

Current planning envisages the introduction of the GBU-39/40 Small Diameter Bomb in the Block 20 aircraft by 2007, together with high resolution SAR radar modes, improved radar ECCM, two way voice and data MIDS/Link-16 capability, improved crew station software, and improved electronic countermeasures. The Block 20 configuration is the baseline for the Global Strike Task Force (GSTF) fleet, and will include JSF common radar modules, a dedicated high-speed radar processor, and COTS technology CIP processors. The Block 30 configuration, planned for 2008-2011, extends the growth seen in the Block 20. Side-looking radar arrays are envisaged to provide a significant ISR capability in the aircraft along with enhancements to provide full air defence suppression (Wild Weasel) and time-critical target engagement capabilities. A Satcom terminal will be added to provide continuous network connectivity during deep-strike profiles. The post-2011 Block 40 aircraft is intended to be the definitive Global Strike configuration, including incremental enhancements to Block 30 additions, to provide full sensor networking, range enhancements, highly integrated ISR capabilities, and a Helmet Mounted Display similar to the JSF. Longer term planning for post Block 40 envisages an Electronic Attack variant, essentially replacing the lost EF-111A Raven. A stealthy stores pod for JDAM and SDB is also in development to enable carriage on external pylons. As a strike aircraft the F/A-22A will have similar internal payloads to the JSF, but will be vastly more survivable due to better stealth to evade air defence missile batteries, plus better speed/altitude performance, more defensive internally carried air-air missiles and the ability to kill opposing fighters with no difficulty. The spiral development program for strike capabilities is incremental, and primarily involves software and integration of networking equipment and new weapons. As a result, it is an affordable proposition. The Block 20 enhancements were covered within the original 2004 production budget.

Source: http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=3296

Also consider, funds are tight everywhere. The upgrade path is going to be super micro-managed. Any little thing now that goes over it's budget ceiling ( even upgrade path projections)..... it could be a new bathroom for a F-22 support facility, it doesn't matter, will be blown way out of proportion by the_leftist_broken_rifle_$200 hammer_ alarmist gov. watchdog: F-22 Sustainment Budget Problems. So every budget officer/DOD civilian will make sure a contract is bullet proof before it goes into a PowerPoint slide or a press release. Sometimes a delay or schedule to an upgrade_change won't be technology driven but decision_maker/color_of_money/all_the_ducks_lined_up_in_a_row_ driven.
The example has already been set on this program a few years ago when the project manager was fired. So given that climate, put yourself in their shoes. Laughing

Needs more gas. You can never have enough gas. Gas gives more range and longer loiter and more flexibility in planning the ingress/egress route and longer staying power in a fight.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 - 09:19 AM Posts: 1092

djcross wrote:

Needs more gas. You can never have enough gas. Gas gives more range and longer loiter and more flexibility in planning the ingress/egress route and longer staying power in a fight.

Stealthy CFTs? Smile

johnqhitman wrote:

an EMP weapon? How could the pilot use it and not fry his own electronics?

It is a directed energy weapon. I guess in the scheme of things publicizing this is in the same category as the contrail suppression device.

Adrian

johnqhitman wrote:

an EMP weapon? How could the pilot use it and not fry his own electronics?

Not that I know anything about this, but a more correct term would be a "directed energy weapon"

avon1944 wrote:

It is a directed energy weapon. I guess in the scheme of things publicizing this is in the same category as the contrail suppression device.

Adrian

Ok first off sorry for dredging up a very old thread but this is something i've been wondering about for a while now, that is F-22 contrail management.
I take it from the above quoted post that such a system was planned but not implemented? Does anyone have any futher info on this as i'm not having much luck on Google.
Also I believe the B-2 has it; are any other aircraft known to have it too? Thanks.

Forum Veteran Joined: Apr 16, 2005 - 03:16 PM Posts: 800

The F-22 should avoid close in dogfights like the plague. It is such a high value asset that it should take the minimum of risks of being detected.

Imo a worthy upgrade would be MICA-IRs in the side bays. They should fit and they have about twice the range of the AIM-9X block 2. They have a multi target capability and they would be perfect for a second salvo. They would also be very good at close range with the thrust vectoring of the F-22. The 9X's 90 deg off boresight capability is useless on the F-22 because of the lack of HMS, the 60deg capability of the MICA is more than enough.

Another advantage of MICA-IRs is that they would be sufficient for self protection in a/g configuration. The AMRAAM could be removed from the main bays and 50% more SDBs could be carried.

So no need to make a new missile, buy like 500-600 MICA-IRs to the French and reserve them to the raptors. Enough to shoot down about 400 aircraft without taking too much risk.

shep1978 wrote:

avon1944 wrote:

It is a directed energy weapon. I guess in the scheme of things publicizing this is in the same category as the contrail suppression device.

Adrian

Ok first off sorry for dredging up a very old thread but this is something i've been wondering about for a while now, that is F-22 contrail management.
I take it from the above quoted post that such a system was planned but not implemented? Does anyone have any futher info on this as i'm not having much luck on Google.
Also I believe the B-2 has it; are any other aircraft known to have it too? Thanks.

So far as I remember, the B-2 was planned to have the system, but never actually had it installed. For that reason, there are several areas of unused space (small bays) on the B-2. At any rate, the logic for canning it on the B-2 probably holds true for the Raptor: its just easier to change your altitude, engine settings, whatever, in order to eliminate the contrails' formation.

HaveVoid

Viperalltheway wrote:

The F-22 should avoid close in dogfights like the plague. It is such a high value asset that it should take the minimum of risks of being detected.

Imo a worthy upgrade would be MICA-IRs in the side bays. They should fit and they have about twice the range of the AIM-9X block 2. They have a multi target capability and they would be perfect for a second salvo. They would also be very good at close range with the thrust vectoring of the F-22. The 9X's 90 deg off boresight capability is useless on the F-22 because of the lack of HMS, the 60deg capability of the MICA is more than enough.

Just 2 points-

The -9X has a greater than 90 deg off boresite capability(i.e. over the shoulder).

The lack of HMS won't be an issue for the F-22, as it's MLDs(which are being upgraded to DAS-like capabilities vs. aircraft targets) will be able to cue the HOBs shots.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F/A-22 Raptor Future Upgrades