Forum: Technology

The last BUFF driver I talked to assured me that those turbofans have small fan sections. Yeah, they're loud when you put eight of 'em together Wink

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The Rafale can be added to the list of supercruisers. With M88-2 engines and in a clean cofiguration, the Squall can cruise dry with M 1.2. Equipped with 20.000 lbs M88-3 and 6 Mica's it cruises at M 1.4.

Quote:

The Rafale can be added to the list of supercruisers. With M88-2 engines and in a clean cofiguration, the Squall can cruise dry with M 1.2. Equipped with 20.000 lbs M88-3 and 6 Mica's it cruises at M 1.4.

Yeah, sure Laughing

Let's consider only operational aircraft, not some future upgrades...

'future upgrades', The Rafale with M88-2 has allready supercruised, the version with the M88-3 I am not 100% sure about. Also the F110 GE-129 equipped F-16XL has done some supercruising.

I think what we are trying to say here is that an aircraft, in operational configuration, with full load and fuel, going from subsonic to supersonic and sustaining supersonic speed without the need of augmentation. I think that is the heart of the thread. To my knowledge only the F/A-22, YF-22, and YF-23 can claim that distinction. Not even the Concorde could claim that.

The definition of the "real" supercruise for fighters today should include:

1. Breaking sonic barrier without after-burnner(s).

2. Supercruising with certain amount of weapon loadings at the altitude of 30,000~50,000 fts, such as F/A-22 (1.5~1.7 Mach with AIM-120*6 and AIM-9X*2), EF-2000 (1.2 to 1.3 Mach with AIM-120*4 and AIM-132*2 +/- one to two 1,000 L tank(s)), and Rafale (more than Mach 1 with one belly 1,250 L tank, MICA AAM*2, and MAGIC-2 AAM*2).

3. More than 50% combat time or combat radius is under the state of supercruse in the whole mission.

4. The speed could still be maintained more than Mach 1 without using afterburnner while playing a certain amount of maneuver or turnning ~ Only F/A-22 has the confidence to achieve this up to now.

Biggest supercruise aircraft was Myiasishchev's M-50. The second prototype reached M1.2 using afterburners in inboard engines only (outboard engines was not fitted wit afterburners) and sustained it without afterburning. Not bad for a 1955 design weighing 180 tons (prototypes) to 245 tons (fully equipped)

This was not put into production (1.8 Mach capable M-52 with afterburners on all engines) mainly because ICBMs were ready at this time rendering it useless. Further development of Tu-95 was prefered instead with the stand off weapons developed for the M-50 (same history as XB-70 and B-52) because of the T-95 had (and still has...) better endurance (16 hours - limited to crew fatigue !!!). I post it here just because it is widely unknown... Supercruise was actually a demand for this aircraft as it was a 10000 km range (17000 with 2 refuels) and thus the extravagant weight and size of this giant. It was designed of course using "area rule" very strictly and a wing with the highest load at this time.

I guess then it is the matter of how much easy and repeatedly the aircraft could supercruise.

cru wrote:

From various sources, not only the EF, F 16 blk. 50/52, but even the draggy F 18 C with the new engines (F404-GE-402) could supercruise at ~1.2M. However, this capability is more theoretical because is achieved only in clean configuration, while the Raptor can do 1.6 M with 8 missiles. Hang something on the other planes and you'll need AB to go supersonic.

Not so, the EF can supercruise with an external weapons load.

Did somebody mention this and I missed it?

I think the vark can supercruise too.

I think the big difference with -22 is that is supercruising was one of it's design goals. Therefore, the ability to supercruise isn't a novelty, inasmuch as an inherent tactical "feature" of the aircraft that is meant to be exploited.

That is it's huge internal fuel load (25Klbs+), the rcs optimization that also results happily in reduced external drag (no need to hang draggy stores outboard), and incredible engines that produce more dry thrust in mil power than 414's do in afterburner.

Forum: Technology

Supercuise ain't new. WTF?