Forum: Air Power

My solution for India would be this.

1. The opportunity for India to buy unlimited F-16s and F-18 Eagles, without a guarantee that at a later stage spare parts would not be stopped for whatever reason... makes this a useless proposition for India....cause if there was a conflict...spare parts would be stopped or worse controlled/blackmailed by folks here.

2. Russia sells Sukois to India and China but not to Pakistan. China may be big and bad...but they are rational. Pakistan is not. India should have no reason to fear China. They would not drop the nuke on India for whatever problem they may have with India, But, Inda should have every reason to fear an irrational Islamic Pakistan.

3. If India does not buy the said 125-250 aircrafts that it is budgeted to buy from Russia. (Russia is depending on this money for R&D), they may decide to start selling to Pakistan...It has never sold any defence equipment to Pakistan to date. If they do....This is the worst outcome for India.

4. US is a rational country... it will not sell arms to Pakistan when/if there is a conflict with India. Not at this stage in history. The people here will not tolerate it...Atleast not the reasonable good Americans.. who are the majority, inspite of the wishes of some republican president at a later stage.

5. Russians Sukois are very good aircrafts if not better than US F-18s. However.. its avionics and ammunition delivery system is archaic.

So here is the solution for India.

a. They may decide not to reward Bush by purchasing 250 F-16s for this decision that he made. India should buy the 250 Sukois from Russia and help them maintain their profitabilty so they will survive and make sure..they do not start selling to Pakistan. They are far more dependent supplier for India inspite of a generation behind in technology.

b. Get the avionics and precision bombs strike systems from Israel....and modify the Sukois with these.

c. A 125-250 Sukois modified with Israeli Avionics and strike capability maybe the way to go...considering someone deciding to put a billion people's life at risk by giving terrorist nation Pakistan a delivery system to drop their Nukes.

Another option for India, would be to follow the path of Pakistan... Use them as a study as to how they achieved this...do something similar...by propogating nuke techinology to other countries and then doing something "helpful" for big payback. That sure has impressed a lot of "smart" folks here.

[Edited by mod for political content]

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See also: <a href="f-16_news_article1302.html">Indian air force to acquire 126 jets</a>

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Another option for India, would be to follow the path of Pakistan... Use them as a study as to how they achieved this...do something similar...by propogating nuke techinology to other countries and then doing something "helpful" for big payback. That sure has impressed a lot of "smart" folks here.

Will never happen.

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A 125-250 Sukois modified with Israeli Avionics and strike capability maybe the way to go...considering someone deciding to put a billion people's life at risk by giving terrorist nation Pakistan a delivery system to drop their Nukes.

140 Su-30MKIs arer to roll out off HAL plants and these have Israeli components in them.

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

Manny wrote:

2. Russia sells Sukois to India and China but not to Pakistan. China may be big and bad...but they are rational. Pakistan is not. India should have no reason to fear China. They would not drop the nuke on India for whatever problem they may have with India, But, Inda should have every reason to fear an irrational Islamic Pakistan.

c. A 125-250 Sukois modified with Israeli Avionics and strike capability maybe the way to go...considering someone deciding to put a billion people's life at risk by giving terrorist nation Pakistan a delivery system to drop their Nukes.

Manny, I respectfully suggest, you retract/rephrase your above statements. You're welcome to share your thought. But please refrain from making provocative statements or irresponsible political view.

regards,

India made it clear that IAF will buy 126 fighter aircraft from either France, U.S, or Russia. India cannot satisfy all, it could try to split up the order by three, but it'll have to build up a totally new infastructure for the American fighter, and the more different types of planes you operate, the more expensive it is to operate. At most IAF can split the deal between two, and given it already has Mirage 2000-5 and MiG-29, it can do so with Russia and France. Thus far IAF is to buy 140 SU-30MKIs (in addition to the 40-50 they have), a large number of LCAs, and 126 other fighters for their Nuclear Attack Corps.

I also request Manny to retract some comments made on the lines of emotional anger at Pakistan, such as "irrational Islamic Nation Pakistan", and "terrorist nation of Pakistan".

Manny,

As the previous posters pointed out, please do not post any offensive remarks (see our forum guidelines at http://www.f-16.net/guidelines.html ).

I removed some of your comments earlier in the day but I missed some. I do believe a retraction of your comments is in order!

Stefaan

Salute!

What Stefaan says. I say again, "WHAT STEFAAN SAYS!!!!"
***************
I happened to have personally checked out the Pakistani pilots scheduled for those first Vipers. Way back in early 80's.

A really super group and we were all fighting to get in on the delivery missions. Then politics raised its ugly head.

The Pakistani pilots were outstanding in every respect. We had zero problems checking them out, as they had flown several aircraft types as instructor pilots in various mid-east countries.

I shall not compare them to those from other nations we helped, so don't ask on this forum.

Suffice it to say, the Pakistani Vipers were not basic Foreign Military Sales jets, and there was not a lot of $$$ provided by the U.S. other than a small amount for admin. That's best I remember.

After all these years, I am personally glad they got the jets they paid for.

out,

What they said Very Happy

! Please try to keep the politics out of the discussion if at all possible Wink

.

Remember that the word "politics" comes from the latin "poly" for many and "ticks" which are blood sucking parasites Razz

. We try to keep things nice and cordial here.

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Russians Sukois are very good aircrafts if not better than US F-18s

That's not saying much. (F/A-18-Like a fighter only slower) Sorry, had to lighten the mood a little.

I whole-heartedly agree with Stefaan and what the rest of the gang said. Some of your comments are themselves irrational and not neccessary. This site is worldwide, let's try to keep it civilized.

Guiness

Uuuummm, Guinness!

Last edited by ghostrider883 on Mar 29, 2005 - 09:30 AM; edited 1 time in total

Diving_Falcon wrote:

India made it clear that IAF will buy 126 fighter aircraft from either France, U.S, or Russia. India cannot satisfy all, it could try to split up the order by three, but it'll have to build up a totally new infastructure for the American fighter, and the more different types of planes you operate, the more expensive it is to operate. At most IAF can split the deal between two, and given it already has Mirage 2000-5 and MiG-29, it can do so with Russia and France. Thus far IAF is to buy 140 SU-30MKIs (in addition to the 40-50 they have), a large number of LCAs, and 126 other fighters for their Nuclear Attack Corps.

The whole deal invloves technology transfer and license production of the fighter here in India. a small number will be on direct order from the manufacturer and the rest will be manufactured in India.After the F-16 fiasco, i don't think India would want to get jets from US. With MiG-29Ks to arm the new, Indian Navy carrier(fromer Adm Gorshkov), the MiG-29M2 would be good choice since it becomes easier to maintain along with common weapons and spare parts.

India still hasn't received the RFI sent to Lockheed Martin. MiG(MiG-29M2), Dassault(M2K-5) and Saab(Gripen) have sent information on their respective fighters to India.

126 fighters... Nuclear Attack Corps... Rolling Eyes

like the sound of it, but they are to replace the old MiG-21s for the Air Force.
FYI, India has adopted a non-first use of nuclear weapons. which means India will not use nulcear weapons unless it is attacked first with nulcear weapons.

OK.. fair enough. <b>I take back the Pakistan being "Irrational" and "terrorists" from what I said.</b>

Another option for India is to double or triple the number of aircrafts... push the other side like what was done to the Soviets. Except keep purchasing Russiann aircrafts. Forget the french ones, they'll also sell to everyone and anyone.

If money is the issue... India can always trade with Iran or Saudis and give them whatever they desire in exchange. I am sure..they need stuff that India has. Twisted Evil

The morality in this is very clear. It's good as long as its mutually benefecial to the two countries that is making the trade. What it does to other countries is besides the point. Rolling Eyes

I believe that India will only continue on building their relationship with Russia from now on. That means buying more of their new Su's. And less of any other make. They already have the training programs set up for maintance, and pilot training. So to buy some other model would be like starting all over for them. Plus the new Sukhois have be the worlds best operational jets as of now. Dare I say, yes better than the 25 year old 15-18's. As far as Pakistan goes who knows. One thing is for sure that these arms buying sprees will not ease the tensions in that troubled region.

ACSheva

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4391775.stm" rel="nofollow">India moves for used Mirage jets</a> (BBC news)

I still think..India should sell nukes to Iran for Natural Gas and to other middle east countries for Oil. If any other countries object... make an offer to sell them nukes as well.

The trick is.. to sell the same stuff to the ones who are objecting.. then it becomes a non issue. Wink

I know India's domestic airlines are booming and they are in the process of procuing passenger airplanes... I say,,get it from Air Bus.

I am sure... Musharraf will compensate by buying airplanes from Boeing.

remember..."It's the economy stupid".

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If money is the issue... India can always trade with Iran or Saudis and give them whatever they desire in exchange. I am sure..they need stuff that India has.

You mean what exactly?

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I still think..India should sell nukes to Iran for Natural Gas and to other middle east countries for Oil. If any other countries object... make an offer to sell them nukes as well.

Do you fully understand what you're advocating Shocked

? Think about Iran's history of foreign policy and whom they aid and finance. I don't think this is such a great idea...

Forum: Air Power

My solution for India's air power needs