Forum: Civil and General Aviation

Habu, no problem at all Very Happy

!!! I was going through some of the old threads when I saw your post about how you wanted one. I remembered coming across one for sale a while back and found it again. I didn't know if you'd seen it yet and I'm glad to have helped!

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Well all I can hope for at my current financial situation is to help out or volunteer. Maybe whore myself out as a freelance draftsman or something. Just get my foot in the door.

With all the things that's happened in the past few years and with heightened security and terrorist alerts, I doubt the govt will ever sell those to us. Like SwedgeII mentioned earlier, it could fall into the wrong hands. My guess is that they don't someone to go to Jane Doe's house and blow her skirt up in a low-level afterburner flyby Very Happy

or maybe that's just something I'd do Laughing

j/k New way of disturbing the peace nonetheless. The only one I've ever seen in an air show was a guy with a MiG-15 way back when I was in grade school... might've been the MiG-17 that parrothead mentioned, but was too long ago to recall. Always wanted to go to my high school reunion in a Harrier and land it on the football field Mr. Green

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Always wanted to go to my high school reunion in a Harrier and land it on the football field

I don't know how long you'd have your license after that one Wink

, but if you really want one, here's the place to buy it Cool

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http://www.everettaero.com/

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My guess is that they don't someone to go to Jane Doe's house and blow her skirt up in a low-level afterburner flyby

I don't think that's their reason - there are too many jets already in private hands for that.

Here are a few links for anyone interested in civilian owned jet warbirds.

www.starfighters.net
One of our members is also a member of this great jet demo team. I hope we see JR007 around here again soon!

http://www.thorntonaircraft.com

http://www.classicjets.org/

http://www.jetwarbird.com/

http://www.mig-sabre.com/

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RedSta ... /index.htm

parrothead wrote:

I suppose you can do anything if you want it bad enough. Smile

For a look at a few of the jets in private hands, check out http://www.warbirdalley.com/acft.htm. It has a pretty good list, just scroll to the bottom for the jets. I know Gums will be happy to hear that there are at least two A-37s in private hands! A couple of other examples I can name are Bill Reesman with his Mig-17F (www.migbird.com) and the Starfighters airshow team (www.starfighters.net). Cool

I know JR007 is familiar with that last one! Wink

I think I'll just have to work hard, save my money while learning to fly (if that isn't a complete oxymoron!), and become friendly with the FAA and my political representitives. Thanks everyone for all your time, thought, and effort. Very Happy

Please let me know if anyone thinks of anything else!

My old man used to fly A-37s, said it was his second favorite airplane behind the a-10. He liked flying low in the hills rather than at 30k feet; but he says touching the face of God also has it's merits!!! I would love an A-37 or t-37... nice airplanes...

It's not as difficult to acquire a military aircraft as one might think. Money generates lift for most aircraft. The cheapest military aircraft you can buy, and I plan on doing this eventually, is getting an F-104. If you're a mechanic, pilot, aeronautical engineer, and can invest about 200K, the cost of a moderate condominium, guess what? You can handle the ownership of an F-104. They are all over the place, you must comply with the FAR's with regard to operation and demilitarizing, however if you register as experimental, you can keep all the stuff and even add to it if you want.

This is my eventual dream and it's not too far away. A flight is going to cost about 2G. Whats so expensive about that? The idea is to know your ship and keep it airworthy and take pride in it. Its cheaper than any WWII warbird I can tell you that! Any comments about this post, please feel free to write.

You are about 1/5 the cost of a flight. Just the fuel cost is way above your guess. Add the other operational costs some of which include LOX, nitrogen, and a huffer (-60) to start her. Two qualified crew chiefs to preflight the jet and bleed the hydraulics, all this must be done while running. The insurance costs, and heaven forbid something breaks and you have to find an airworthy part. The $1,000 each main tire costs alone will make you go broke when you have to change them after a couple of demos. Jet-A is $4 a gallon in FL, if you haven’t paid for any recently.

Back when Jet-A was only $2 a gallon, at another airshow team, we figured all expenses were about $2,500 an hour for the T-33. That was using retread tires and doing all our own maint. You can’t do that type of “back yard” maint on a fighter that will leave the F-16 sitting on its ventral’s in acceleration, speed, and climb.

Not to mention being the owner of a jet that is NOT for inexperienced hands. No doubt, I'd love to get a ride, and JR, buddy, if you're ever offering, I'm ready when you are! Wink

HOWEVER...To the brand new user:

An F-104 is about as stable as Dennis Hopper after 6 lines of coke, and is about as forgiving as John Gotti was to a guy who didn't pay up what he owed! Shocked

Still wanna skipper the Zipper? Twisted Evil

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

TC wrote:

Not to mention being the owner of a jet that is NOT for inexperienced hands. No doubt, I'd love to get a ride, and JR, buddy, if you're ever offering, I'm ready when you are! Wink

HOWEVER...To the brand new user:

An F-104 is about as stable as Dennis Hopper after 6 lines of coke, and is about as forgiving as John Gotti was to a guy who didn't pay up what he owed! Shocked

Still wanna skipper the Zipper? Twisted Evil

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

TC, I gotta say that I always think to myself "Oh God, what has he said this time?!" whenever I see that you were the last one in a topic! You always make me laugh Laughing

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I've always heard this about the Starfighter and yes, I really still want one Very Happy

!!! Now how can I rig that Megabucks machine down at the casino... Wink

parrothead wrote:

Now how can I rig that Megabucks machine down at the casino...

Uh...You could ask the guy that used to work for American Coin and the Nevada State Gaming Commission...before he did time for rigging slots.

BTW, his boss from American Coin was about to testify, but he got two in the back of the head (in his own driveway in Vegas)! Shocked

Lemme guess...A Boy Scout shooting for his Marksmanship Badge, right? Rolling Eyes

Let's see...If TC could own any aircraft he wanted (within some semblance of reason) it would be either a...

T-37 Tweet and/or an A-37 Dragonfly (don't laugh, they pull a LOT of G's). Great ride, the Tweet is (and I should know). Wink

an F-5F Tiger II (hey, I'm friendly. I'll take people up for rides Very Happy

) Gotta pay for gas somehow right? Very Happy

a TA-4 Skyhawk (once again, friendly TC would take his buds up for rides!)

Or, an F-106 Delta Dart...Even though most of its parts now reside in small pieces at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, I'd love to find a way! Anyone that grew up around "The Six" will know why I would at least want a ride, if not own one!

BTW, something I'd love to try is take an F-5 airframe, completely gut it of all unnecessary parts, strengthen the airframe, and find a way to modify it so as to drop a GE-F404 into it, to make it quite like the F-20 Tigershark.

Man, when I was a kid, the Tigershark was just IT for me, even while growing up on a base with QF-102s, F-106s, F-15s, and T-33s ALL flying at the same time!

The Tigershark just had that look like it wanted to kick something's @$$ and fly at Mach-many just sitting on the tarmac...Then Reagan had to go and cancel it. Evil or Very Mad

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

TC,

You said it partner, a two seater is the way to go on the civi side.

The best way to get a free hop is to get picked by an airshow for the VIP hop normally done at most shows, just a thought... But I'm like "Buffet Cranium", if I make millions, there will be rides amuck as long as you don't puke. As an ex-boss from another team used to say, "If you puke and it gets in my jet, I'll rip your arms off and beat you to death with them."

Y'all keep bringing up the F-5, neat looking airplane, but Sharkbait's gun camera footage from the Zipper proved the Tiger can't sustain a turn, nor win, when fighting against the F-104.

There are 30+ A-4 for sale for $40k here in the US, but we figured $500k to get one airworthy, neat airplane though!

The problem with the F-106 is the gear, we wanted to get one, back when I was on another team but the 82nd ATS talked us out of it based on the gear problems. We also were given an F-4, at one time, but the boss was intelligent enough to decline as you can't keep that "thing" from staying broke...

The T-Bird ain't a bad airplane, you spend $150,000, get pressurization and 350 kts cruise at about 1,800 pounds an hour. And talk about a strong airframe! But she is a wee bit anemic. Good smooth acro machine with touchy controls due to the 14 to 1 aileron boost. Flying here above 30k takes a smooth hand, especially in the soup. [Funny side story, the boss was up front and I was flying from the back, ATC didn’t have the update for our flight plan. We are blasting along with the boss talking on comm while I’m flying. I ask after crossing our descent point, if he had come up with another plan… Huh, uh no, he replied and called center. So they finally get it worked out so that center now understands where we are going. They give us a 90 right for the descent, I told the boss I could intercept the approach from there. He called center and they cleared us direct. We are 30 nm out at 32k so I thumbed out the boards, rolled her inverted, went to flight idle, and ran her up to .72 Mach as Vne is .8 and needless to say the descent rate was off the 6,000 fpm marked gauge. Well, unbeknownst to me, the boss forgot to turn on the defrosters, so I froze the bullet proof glass of the windscreen. - Remember in 1950’s and 1960’s Lockheed fighters and trainers, defrost prior to descent. Smile

]

FYI, the F-104 is more stable than the T-33, no sierra! It’s just being able to fly her on the edge, handle emergencies, and the 170 kts approach speed that can start giving inadequately trained drivers a problem.

This pic is another reason I like the Zipp4, the world speed record run, still held by a civilian Zipper...

Oh yes, Darrell Greenamyer's "Red Barron". Still makes me sick to think that the man spent all that money scrounging for 104 parts, got the jet built, designed his own ejection seat, and then...

...he had to use it. Evil or Very Mad

I must say, there haven't been too many jets ever built that were as beautiful as the F-104. That plane looked like she was screaming along at Mach 2 just sitting on the tarmac! To date, it is the only member of the Century Series that I have never seen fly.

Always loved watching the T-Birds fly too. Another good looking jet, especially with the tip tanks, and it could also pull a lot of G's. I understand the engine in the T-Bird is a little touchy though.

Hope I can make it to one of your shows sometime JR. What's the closest to NW Florida you will fly this year?

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

TC,

Darryl is a really neat dude. I've been fortunate enough to spend time at the club talking with him about the Zipper, actually I was mainly listening and trying to remember everything possible. He's been rather unfortunate with a few aircraft.

The T-33A engine is an Allison J-33, it's got a 900C redline for start and a 713C limit for normal ops. You always watch the EGT like a hawk for starts or when making a significant throttle movement or you'll overtemp her, undertemp her, or make it get really quite at the wrong time... You move the throttle gently like it’s a geared recipe. The Canadair birds have Rolls-Royce engines and are a lot less touchy, generally have lower temp starts, and have 600 lbs more thrust. You can rent a T-Bird at several places in the US for a training hop pretty easily.

The only FL show is MacDill on April 9 and 10. If you plan to get down to Tampa, let me know, I’ll send you my cell number so you can get out on the ramp and sit in the Zipper.

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Darryl is a really neat dude. I've been fortunate enough to spend time at the club talking with him about the Zipper, actually I was mainly listening and trying to remember everything possible.

I keep saying this, but JR, you're one lucky dude Thumb

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I love the fact that a civilian in a former military jet still owns the low altitude speed record Very Happy

! Only in America!

I took a class at Palomar Community College on complex aircraft systems where we studied the Cessna Citation. The instructor made sure to tell us about how you always have to watch the temp gagues when starting jet engines. It's amazing how close to limits jet engines come at all phases of flight. That's the class where I learned just how important oil pressure is to a jet engine Wink

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One of these days I'll get a chance to get to a Starfighters' airshow Very Happy

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Rats! I shoulda known the MacDill show was coming up so soon. If only it had been a month later I could have been there. Maybe I can get my "6" up to Atlantic City in August.

I swear, if I could never see another airshow in my life, that would be the display I'd like most to see, because as I've said before, the Zipper is the only Century Series member I've never seen fly...at least not in person anyway.

Til then, I still have my trusty copy of "The Right Stuff". Wink

What you said about the J33 engine is exactly what my pops told me. He used to work Phase Docks and QA on the T-Bird. I always get a kick when I hear him say he pulled more G's on his T-Bird ride than he did on either of his rides in the Eagle. No bull$hit!

Of course, knowing what I know from my ride in the Tweet, those straight wings can help put on the G's! That d@mn Tweety Bird can pull practically more G's than anything in the inventory, and you don't wear a G-suit. Shocked

Crazy, huh?

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Forum: Civil and General Aviation

Why won't the US sell its surplus aircraft to civilians?