Forum: Air Power

What happened to this product of the Clinton administration? I recall USAF crews being trained in EA-6 ops back in the mid to late 90s, and around 95 or 96 an all USAF crew landed a Prowler on a carrier deck. I haven't heard anything more about it though.

Was it a program that failed? Was it cut back (like many other Clinton and pre-Clinton programs)? Are there any USAF aircrew still involved in the Prowler program? What sort of USAF aircrew occupied the non-pilot seats? Were they all navigators? Were there any other aircraft besides the Prowler that USAF, USN, and USMC aircrew were going to operate jointly?

I know, I bombarded you with 7 questions there, but I hope someone has some answers. Joint Forces ops has its pluses and minuses (for instance, TACP, which I won't get into my personal feelings for), but this seemed to be a good idea in the void that was left after the Spark'Vark was retired.

Someone enlighten the class.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

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Joint Forces is a good/bad idea I would think. You have crews getting appreciation for what the other services go through.Landing on carriers at night, etc.Also yo have more guys trained at different jets,if things get bad, you got more pilots trained at how to fight a different machine. Thus they would also get better understanding of their field in total I'd say. But that does cost money,allot of money. Maybe that's why the program did not go that far at all. God knows....

But if you read the Book "ROLLING THUNDER" which is basicly a book of great fighter battles from vietnam,and all the way to the 91 Desert Storm. There is a guy that transfered from the Marines to the USAF to fly the F 15C Eagle. Previously he had flown for the in the Marines AV 8 Harrier. It specificaly says that it was part of his "joint service assignment". That's the only situation that I know that ever had cross training done. I'm sure theres some more....

ACSheva

Yeah, that was the man, the myth, the legend Chuck "Sly" Magill. Cool

A great pilot, and was a friend when he was still flying Eagles. Of course, that was an exchange assignment (not uncommon) but that lucky ba$tard transitioned into Eagles at the right time.

Came out of Harriers (I believe he also flew Hornets at one point) went through Eagle B Course at Tyndall in early to mid '90, then went down the road to to the 33rd TFW at Eglin. Well, the 33rd deployed not long afterward. He bagged a 29 in Desert Storm and was the only Marine pilot to achieve an A2A kill over there (I think the Hornet drivers that got kills were both swabbies from the Saratoga.)

Coincidentally, he needed an Air Force plane to do it, but "Sly" ended up being the first "MiG Mad Marine" in a USAF unit since John Glenn did it in a USAF Sabre unit back in Korea.

But yeah, the Joint Forces Aircrews thing, I don't know what the hell happened to. The USAF even retired the Spark Vark, as I recall just to free up some budget space to get the project on wheels. I don't know if we still have any USAF guys involved in Prowler ops or not. Not sure about any pilots. We may have some scope pukes that ride backseat in the Prowler, but I'm really not sure.

As far as exchange assignments go, that happens all the time. You can put in for an assignment, and if they have a slot for you, you can go fly for another branch of service (3 to 4 years) or actually, even more common is going overseas. I've known guys that have gone to Japan, England, and Australia, and flown Phantoms, Eagles, Tornados, Harriers, and Hornets. There's also been foreigners that have come here to fly from Japan, Kuwait, Saudi, Israel, England, Germany, and Australia (among other countries as well.) It's a great program and if you get the chance, jump on it!

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Regarding Chuck "Sly" Magill

Hi TC,

Is he still flying jets? Maybe you could get him to give us his insight on his experience while flying in the joint aircrew program. That would be very nice.

Shev

I might know a contact that could get in touch with Sly. It's been a long time, but I'll do my best. I heard that he had become an instructor at TOPGUN shortly after the war, but I haven't been able to confirm that as of yet. There's some people that are still around Eglin that might know his whereabouts. I'd also be interested to know what he thinks of joint forces training and aircrews. I already know what his opinion of exchange assignments is! Very Happy

That was the luckiest PCS that man ever made. I knew quite a few MiG killers from Gulf War I (Denney, Dietz, Draeger, Graeter, Kelk, Magill, Pitts, Powell, Prather, Rodriguez, Tate, and Tollini.) <---- I can usually only remember all at once, if I put them in alphabetical order Laughing

If I could get in contact with any of them, I'll try to get them on this site. More to follow. TC out.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Awesome man.That would be grand. Cant wait to hear their views, the only gulf war fighter pilot contact I have is ret Col. David W Eberly. He is a great man. He was an F15E driver back in the days.

Shev

Well, here's what I found out about Joint Prowler Ops. They activated 4 squadrons in the late 90s to support Air Force EAFs. They can use Air Force crewmembers as well. Not a full AF crew, but one or two may fly in a mixed Navy/AF or Marine/AF crew.

Now, as for the Desert Storm MiG killers I knew, some of those guys I knew would be next to impossible to track down. I might have some people who could hunt down Denney, Powell, Rodriguez, and Tollini, and as I said, maybe Magill. However, Magill did go back to the USMC after his exchange assignment was up.

Last time I saw Jay "Opie" Denney, he had pinned on full Colonel, and was heading to do some puke, staff assignment in Europe.

I believe Dean "Coma" Powell is a full bird as well. Last time I saw him, he was a Major, and an Eagle IP at Tyndall. That was back in '98, and he was supposed to have pinned on Lt. Col. very soon afterward.

Rick "Clouseau" Tollini came into the same unit (2 FS) shortly before I shipped out. He hadn't flown an Eagle in seven years (read that, shortly after the war ended) and was going through an upgrade course to get back in the cockpit.

Dunno where either he or Cesar "Rico" Rodriguez is at present. "Rico" was a real bad@$$. Bagged two in the Storm (one of which was a 29 that he ran into the dirt,) and got a third in Kosovo. After he left Eglin, I have no idea where he went.

Steve "Tater" Tate got out of the AF shortly after ODS. He was less than enamoured with his treatment by the brass, so he hit the road. I'll refrain from telling the story about Tater on this board though.

I wish I could get in touch with those guys. They all have great stories to tell, and would be great assets to this site. Even that old Mississippi boy Coma has a great story. Think of a Mississippi accent and you'll know why they call him "Coma." He and Denney got their two kills a piece on the same sortie. They split up and took two each. As I said though, I'll try my best to track these guys down. It really IS a small Air Force.

BTW AC, you say you know a Strike Eagle Driver that was there. Are you stationed at Seymour?

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

No, I'm not at Seymour AF but we talk via email sometimes. I met him at his book seminar in Carolina a few years ago. So we keep in touch once in a while. He is pretty busy. Col Eberly is really a great man, and I've got much respect for him.

Hey TC if you get a chance drop me a message about "Tater". Kinda interesting to know what happend to him. I remember seeing his old gulf interview on the war channel few years back.
Peace to all...

AcSheva

AC,

About Tate, like I said, I'd really prefer to not get into "juicy" details for a couple reasons. One of which, is because I don't like to spread gossip about other people, and the other reason is because I wasn't at Langley, so I really don't know the whole story. All I know is what gets passed down from one base to another.

People tend to know each other wherever you go in the AF, especially if you stick with the same type jet. So, one person comes in, and tells a story that he learned at his previous base, and then they talk, and...well, it's like a bunch of old battle axes in a beauty parlor.

Anyway, if you ask me, I think that some in the TAC Mafia at Langley were jealous that Tater got his kill and that they got the shaft, because they either A) weren't flying, or B) they did and Eglin or Bitburg took their opportunities to get kills. Tater was the only pilot from the 1st TFW to get a kill, so as I said, people get jealous, some @$$hole starts spreading rumors about a pilot's "personal relationships," and before you know it...

He got a bad deal, just because of a few rumor spreaders. A load of crap for a war hero if you ask me.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Allright TC. It's just sad that he got screwed like that, which probably happens pretty often, I would think. Anyways, I'm out...

ACSheva