Forum: Program and politics

Turkey Quietly Orders Navy F-35 Middle East Newsline December 12, 2012

http://www.menewsline.com/article-1173, ... -F-35.aspx

"ANKARA [MENL] -- Turkey has become the first export customer of the navy
variant of the Joint Strike Fighter."

I'm no subscriber so I'll look for more info elsewhere.

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Turkey Looks To Buy 2 More F-35s September 4, 2012 by David Pugliese

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/09/ ... ore-f-35s/

"The Turkish newspaper, the Hürriyet Daily News, is reporting that Turkey is expected to purchase a second pair of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft to be delivered in 2016. The first pair is set for delivery in 2015, the newspaper notes.

More from the publication:

Turkey will likely order a second pair of the jointly-made, next-generation, stealth fighter F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II aircraft, as it did earlier this year following the production of the first two, a senior procurement official said over the weekend.

In 2006, the United States warned that excessive concurrency in F-35 production and testing might result in expensive refits for several hundred aircraft planned to be produced before the completion of tests, bringing the unit price to over $150 million.

“We are planning to use funds from our Defense Industry Support Fund for the first four aircraft. Two are set for delivery in 2015, and another two for 2016,” the procurement official said. “Later, we will be expecting the creation of a special fund to finance the rest of the program.”

Turkey is expected to eventually buy around 100 F-35s, although the figure may rise up to 120."

That is all.

spazsinbad wrote:

Turkey Quietly Orders Navy F-35 Middle East Newsline December 12, 2012

http://www.menewsline.com/article-1173, ... -F-35.aspx

"ANKARA [MENL] -- Turkey has become the first export customer of the navy
variant of the Joint Strike Fighter."

I'm no subscriber so I'll look for more info elsewhere.

Very surprising, if true. Does Turkey intend to operate a CATOBAR ship?

popcorn wrote:

spazsinbad wrote:

Turkey Quietly Orders Navy F-35 Middle East Newsline December 12, 2012

http://www.menewsline.com/article-1173, ... -F-35.aspx

"ANKARA [MENL] -- Turkey has become the first export customer of the navy
variant of the Joint Strike Fighter."

I'm no subscriber so I'll look for more info elsewhere.

Very surprising, if true. Does Turkey intend to operate a CATOBAR ship?

Not that I can find. The Turkish Navy is looking into building a tiny helicopter carrier, (15,000t displacement) but that's all I could find. Although the fleet is going through a large upgrade. Looks to me like its the TuAF who's buying.

It is said that F-35C variant is considered because of its longer range.

The Navy has been toying with the idea of an organic fixed wing air arm as part of the long (very very long) term projection, but that's another story.

Last edited by popcorn on Dec 13, 2012 - 03:18 PM; edited 1 time in total

firstimpulse wrote:

popcorn wrote:

spazsinbad wrote:

Turkey Quietly Orders Navy F-35 Middle East Newsline December 12, 2012

http://www.menewsline.com/article-1173, ... -F-35.aspx

"ANKARA [MENL] -- Turkey has become the first export customer of the navy
variant of the Joint Strike Fighter."

I'm no subscriber so I'll look for more info elsewhere.

Very surprising, if true. Does Turkey intend to operate a CATOBAR ship?

Not that I can find. The Turkish Navy is looking into building a tiny helicopter carrier, (15,000t displacement) but that's all I could find. Although the fleet is going through
a large upgrade. Looks to me like its the TuAF who's buying.

So what might constitute a STOVL strike platform? Helos are VTOL. Maybe some future UAV? Or could there be a F-35B in the Turkish Navy's future?

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkis ... sCatID=338

Turkish Navy adopts new high-sea strategy

...The Navy aims to advance its limited-strike ability over the next 20 years through the acquisition of a multipurpose landing platform with organic short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft, air defense frigates and unmanned underwater vehicles...

orko_8 wrote:

It is said that F-35C variant is considered because of its longer range.

The Navy has been toying with the idea of an organic fixed wing air arm as part of the long (very very long) term projection, but that's another story.

I am curious what the C's range would be if outside the Navy's flight profile and bring back needs for carrier operations.

bigjku wrote:

orko_8 wrote:

It is said that F-35C variant is considered because of its longer range.

The Navy has been toying with the idea of an organic fixed wing air arm as part of the long (very very long) term projection, but that's another story.

I am curious what the C's range would be if outside the Navy's flight profile and bring back needs for carrier operations.

Question: Are there any carrier specific equipment/parts etc. That could be removed/swapped to improve the "C" for non-carrier operations? Like the tale hook and various equipment. Or swap the lighter landing gear from the A/B.

The tail hook might be bulkier & heavier than A's hook is, since A isn't meant to use the hook most flights. The landing gear is also heavier & bulkier than A's landing gear, and some of the space it takes up could be used for fuel instead. But as soon as you're contemplating the combination of A's landing gear and hook with C's wings and gunless left shoulder, you're contemplating a fourth version of the plane that wasn't presented as one of the choices. And then you might as well also contemplate a wing the size of C's but solid like A's or B's instead of jointed.

I wonder whether this could mean they're considering a big carrier sometime in the future, and whether it could mean they're considering putting catapults and cables on some land bases that are constrained to relatively small boundaries for a land base.

Another thought just came to mind, comparing C to A for land operations... If they're willing to give up the gun, some speed, and some G-rating, and accept higher fuel consumption, to get an increase in range that's not a really big difference, and they don't often go on missions where their planes would be flying from a base that's not in Turkey, then the idea behind prioritizing range like that might not be a general principle of "more range is better". They probably have specific targets in mind and are choosing a plane precisely for those targets.

delvo wrote:

Another thought just came to mind, comparing C to A for land operations... If they're willing to give up the gun, some speed, and some G-rating, and accept higher fuel consumption, to get an increase in range that's not a really big difference, and they don't often go on missions where their planes would be flying from a base that's not in Turkey, then the idea behind prioritizing range like that might not be a general principle of "more range is better". They probably have specific targets in mind and are choosing a plane precisely for those targets.

Could it be about loiter time? In theory the C should be able to loiter at lower power due to having more lift shouldn't it?

Is it possible that the Turks are just curious? I mean... given the nature of the F-35 and its production, it's likely rather painless for an A customer to order a couple of C models (at least compared to an F-16 customer wanting to buy a pair of Shornets). There's also the matter of journalists, who aren't noted for their expertise in these matters. It's possible that someone told this guy that the Turkish Navy is buying some F-35s; whereupon he googled "naval F-35" on his phone and noticed that the "naval variant" didn't have any export customers. Hence, we get a story about a Turkish F-35C buy when it's more likely that they're actually planning to order some F-35Bs for a planned STOVL carrier.

At least that's my crazy interpretation for now.

I'm with the '1st503rdsgt's interpretation: "...At least that's my crazy interpretation for now." It is a couple of F-35Bs. Who would not want a pair in their backyard? Very Happy

Instant BBQ, fun for all the family, much colour and movement before it takes flight. 'popcorn' had the same idea also. Youse know it makes sense. Rolling Eyes

...completely quietly; no mention in the Turkish article referencing the F-35C or B, both bought by the USN. The article mentions the order for the third and fourth F-35 LRIP a/c without specifying type. Question

spazsinbad wrote:

I'm with the '1st503rdsgt's interpretation: "...At least that's my crazy interpretation for now." It is a couple of F-35Bs. Who would not want a pair in their backyard? Very Happy

Instant BBQ, fun for all the family, much colour and movement before it takes flight. 'popcorn' had the same idea also. Youse know it makes sense. Rolling Eyes

I like having every tool I can in my tool box. If I was ordering a hundred-ish F-35's, having 20 of them B's wouldn't cost to much more.