Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

What A2A and A2G weapons will be on the f35. I know sidewinder and aim 120-d for A2A but would Meteor, Brimstone, Stormshadow, Spear be possible?

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warwolf1 wrote:

what A2A and A2G weapons will be on the f35. I know sidewinder and aim 120-d for A2A but would meteor,brimstone,stormshadow,spear are possibles.

It's got bombs, missiles and guns. Everything a growing boy needs.

Next...

WW, Thanks for the thousand words worth of info Smile

I notice that the weapons in the question are all British/European ones, not American. If that was the perspective that the question came from, then two more F-35 weapons are noteworthy: ASRAAM (comparable to Sidewinder) and Joint Strike Missile (derived from Norway's Naval Strike Missile). JSM can fit internally as well as externally. ASRAAM, like Sidewinder, is well under size & weight limits to be carried internally, but needs a rail, so it will only be possible to carry those internally if somebody invents a rail that attaches to a normal rail-less bomb/missile holder.

Meteor also comes with a separate issue for internal use. It's generally a counterpart to an American AMRAAM, but it it weighs 407 pounds instead of 335 like an AMRAAM. F-35's internal AMRAAM spots' weight limit is 350 pounds apiece. That means that, unless & until a lighter version of Meteor is developed, Meteors can only be carried externally or on the other two internal hardpoints that can carry big heavy bombs, while the 350-pound-limit hardpoints go unused. An adapter is in the works to put a pair of AMRAAMs on each of those heavy-duty internal hardpoints instead of just one apiece, and it will presumably work for Meteors too, but the lower hardpoints would still be empty. There's room for 3 Meteors per bay, and the upper hardpoints can handle more than enough weight, but it would require a different kind of adapter which holds the third one in roughly the same space where it would be if it were on the lower hardpoint, and nobody's going to invent that. The more likely ways around the issue without using AMRAAMs will be to mount a missile right on the lower internal spot, which will mean using either an ASRAAM/Sidewinder rail adapter or a lighter Meteor.

@warwolf..... All F-35's come with twelve phaser arrays and five photon torpedo launchers as standard equipment. The romulan cloaking device is optional equipment.

.

I thought the Israeli's had opted for the cloaking device, as part of their guaranteed access to the platform?

Australia's opted for the warp speed drive and anti-gravity module (higher effective ground speed that way...) to allow us to address "reference threats" and keep the Eric Palmer's of the world happy...

0.5 pass lightspeed and the ability to fly into outerspace should almost allow our F-35's to keep up with Sukhois, PAK-FA's and J-20's I'd imagine, whilst allowing us enough breathing room until the S-500 Mk2 (or whatever) is released, anyway...

Laughing

Delvo,

Mbda have now redesigned meteor to fit the internal bay, I don't believe te design has been taken up by a customer yet.

Andy

warwolf1,
Good question there. Since most JSF investors are Europeans, more likely they'll need to load EU missiles and munitions. The smaller diameter and length ordnance should be able to fit in the internal bay for F-35. Brimstone, Iris, ASRAAM, AIM-120C, GBU-32, SDB, etc. When comes to larger ones like Apache, JSOW, Meteor BVRAAM with ramjet, might include AIM-120D with stage rocket booster, they'll be carried externally and risk losing stealth, having just low RCS. Meteor to be redesigned so that it could fit in the internal bay, that'll require the stage rocket booster to be removed leaving the Meteor with shorter range at less than 90Nm. That means Meteor will be competing with AMRAAM in sales of medium range category.

However, the NATOs would fly the F-35s for stealth missions carrying less payload internally. They'll rely on EF2000, Rafales and F-16s for the long range air to air intercept and strike missions. In terms of F-35B replacing Sea Harrier and AV-8B Harriers, that seems to be a doubt. Sea Harrier with 6 underwing hardpoints could carry mixture of A2A and A2G ordnance. F-35B unless they are fitted with external pylons to carry external loads, it'll be hard for it to fly CAS/SEAD where Marines are supposed to do.

I'm not sure whether its internal bay could fit missiles longer than 12ft for AGM like ALARM, HARM? Are they intending to phase out the multi-purpose AGM-65G soon since F-35 and F-22 aren't meant to carry them anymore? You could not use Brimstone and AGM169 to destroy lightly armored bunkers, structures, etc but you could with larger ASMs like AS30L, AGM-65.

SpudmanWP
Thanks for your info on other forums about X-32. You placed much effort in bringing up the issue few years back, if that is really you.

jayraptor wrote:

warwolf1,
Good question there. Since most JSF investors are Europeans, more likely they'll need to load EU missiles and munitions. The smaller diameter and length ordnance should be able to fit in the internal bay for F-35. Brimstone, Iris, ASRAAM, AIM-120C, GBU-32, SDB, etc. When comes to larger ones like Apache, JSOW, Meteor BVRAAM with ramjet, might include AIM-120D with stage rocket booster, they'll be carried externally and risk losing stealth, having just low RCS. Meteor to be redesigned so that it could fit in the internal bay, that'll require the stage rocket booster to be removed leaving the Meteor with shorter range at less than 90Nm. That means Meteor will be competing with AMRAAM in sales of medium range category.

However, the NATOs would fly the F-35s for stealth missions carrying less payload internally. They'll rely on EF2000, Rafales and F-16s for the long range air to air intercept and strike missions. In terms of F-35B replacing Sea Harrier and AV-8B Harriers, that seems to be a doubt. Sea Harrier with 6 underwing hardpoints could carry mixture of A2A and A2G ordnance. F-35B unless they are fitted with external pylons to carry external loads, it'll be hard for it to fly CAS/SEAD where Marines are supposed to do.

I'm not sure whether its internal bay could fit missiles longer than 12ft for AGM like ALARM, HARM? Are they intending to phase out the multi-purpose AGM-65G soon since F-35 and F-22 aren't meant to carry them anymore? You could not use Brimstone and AGM169 to destroy lightly armored bunkers, structures, etc but you could with larger ASMs like AS30L, AGM-65.

SpudmanWP
Thanks for your info on other forums about X-32. You placed much effort in bringing up the issue few years back, if that is really you.

The JSOW, Meteor and AMRAAM-D will fit into the internal bays of the F-35A/C right now.

What Meteor doesn't fit, is the current internal door-mounted rail, where you can see the AMRAAM missile currently fitted below.

What users most likely will opt for I would suggest, will be a mix of Meteor, AMRAAM and IR heaters as their own requirements dictate. Expanded internal carriage options in future years, will add to the flexibility that is already present.

UK intends to use the rail for asraam, although we have a stock of 120c5 used on Typhoon. The question is whether we maintain these after Meteor comes online.

Andy

warwolf1 wrote:

what about tactical nukes and other cruise missiles, fuel air explosives.

I think the B61 will be the major nuke for F35 since it wont fit in F22.. but then again a mach 5 ram jet with a nuclear tip would be a better idea.

If they can get the wave rider to work and shrink that design down thats the future.

MBDA has just finished work on a preliminary contract with Lockheed Martin to study how Meteor will fit into the F-35’s internal weapons bay. Wind tunnel tests to study the airflow around the bay doors as the missile is ejected will be next. The UK’s first operational F-35s will carry AMRAAMs, but the Meteor is scheduled for the stealth fighter’s Block 4 software release...
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... or-missile

twistedneck wrote:

warwolf1 wrote:

what about tactical nukes and other cruise missiles, fuel air explosives.

I think the B61 will be the major nuke for F35 since it wont fit in F22.. but then again a mach 5 ram jet with a nuclear tip would be a better idea.

If they can get the wave rider to work and shrink that design down thats the future.

The F-22 not carrying the B61 is a matter of certification costs, not an inability to fit (F-22 can already carry the larger 1K JADAM). Even the F-35 won't be nuke-certified until after IOC. As for hypersonic cruise missiles, that's just silly... and unnecessary when on can simply load JASSM, JASSM-ER, or JASOW-ER with some of the W80 warheads we have laying around.

Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

Weapons on the F-35s