Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

should usa export f 22 to trusted allys.



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JetTest
PostPosted: Aug 20, 2012 - 08:07 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Jay, in your post on cancellation you were suggesting that LM had a heads tart, now you suggest they were late to the game? Which is it?
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neurotech
PostPosted: Aug 20, 2012 - 10:04 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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jayraptor wrote:
F-15 was at first not allowed for export but only later to Israel and no one else. Saudi Arabia and Japan were only granted clearance later. The F-22 is still highly classifieds, the Congress will be reluctant to sell when it is still new. Probably only later when PAK-FA T-50 and J-20 are confirmed stealth capable posing serious threat to US allies. .

The difference is that the F-15 was still in production, when approval was given to other countries. Bringing the F-22 back into production is highly unlikely.
A 5.5th Gen NGAD/FA-XX Navy jet being made available is more likely. Of course, the F-15 Silent Eagle is available for export, but orders haven't been placed yet.


jayraptor wrote:
Will Syria spend everything they have to rake in whatever latest weapons together with spares parts + packages Russia have before the arms embargo is imposed? During emergency, rather than waiting for the factory to manufacture the ordered weapons, Russia is willing to sell existing used Su-27/30/34 with R-73/77/27 in their Air Force inventory. The same goes to Army and Navy. War is bad but in fact it does help in science and technology advancement if latest weapons are deployed. We'll surely see F-22 vs Su-30MK should Syria goes to war. The S-300 batteries, the Tomahawks and other stand off missiles would do the jobs. Pantsirs will be reserved for fighters and AH-64s. Syria will have to hide everything underground to survive long range missiles attack. They must park their Flankers underground in secret bases with special access to surface airfields (that don't look like airfield but flat land) and not airbase based on Iraqis war experts that had battered by Americans.

Russia has a very small number of Su-30MK jets in service. India and China are the only countries with a significant fleet of Su-30MK(I) aircraft, and they'd not let Syria have them.

The Iraqis buried their jets in the sand. That is different than having operational underground bunkers for these jets. Underground Bunkers for operational jets would cost billions, and take years to complete, so its unlikely Syria has done that.

The problem with SAMs, even the latest ones is that they can be easily detected by a EA-18 jet once activated and then destroyed. A AGM-88 HARM has a long range too.

The famous F-117 shootdown was only possible because the Air Defense Commander kept his radar off until the last minute. Otherwise he would have been blown to hell like the rest of the AD units.
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jayraptor
PostPosted: Aug 21, 2012 - 01:51 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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JetTest wrote:
Jay, in your post on cancellation you were suggesting that LM had a heads tart, now you suggest they were late to the game? Which is it?


JetTest,
It's not head start for LM but instead carry over most tech from the F-22 into shrunk X-35 during R&D. No one knows when the X-32 and X-35 really begin as most info were kept classifieds and only revealed later. All we know is that they revealed the JSF program and they have 2 contenders like the ATF back in early 90's. The fighter designation numbers should be running in sequence, difference of 3 from 32 to 35.


Hi neurotech,
Even if it's not Russia, any country with large numbers of acceptable & obsolete fighters could carry suicide missions. Iraq used to have 300 combat aircrafts, China 3000 and India 900. With less numbers of missiles carried by F-22s and F-35s plus the AIM-120 does not have 100% hit chance, they'll need more fighters to get the job done.
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warwolf1
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 06:04 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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the f22 is good very good i have flown it in ace combat when i can. ive shot down more planes with it than other planes eg ef2000 coming second in planes shot down with it.but the f35b in the game is absolute crap at air to air and not much better at a2g the sidewinders are not internal only internal weapon are guided penetration bomb.the rest on pylons under the wings. the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.
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SpudmanWP
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 07:06 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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That's what you get for basing your opinion on a game.

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1st503rdsgt
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 07:54 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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warwolf1 wrote:
the f22 is good very good i have flown it in ace combat when i can. ive shot down more planes with it than other planes eg ef2000 coming second in planes shot down with it.but the f35b in the game is absolute crap at air to air and not much better at a2g the sidewinders are not internal only internal weapon are guided penetration bomb.the rest on pylons under the wings. the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.


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Might it be possible to query new users with a basic aviation question or two (as done on Secret Projects) before giving them an account?

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pants3204
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 07:58 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Hey at least he is interested. That's a start.
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cywolf32
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 10:27 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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LM should be hiring gamers instead of engineers. This guy has "flown" them. What were they thinking? Shocked Shocked
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count_to_10
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2012 - 11:01 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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warwolf1 wrote:
the f22 is good very good i have flown it in ace combat when i can. ive shot down more planes with it than other planes eg ef2000 coming second in planes shot down with it.but the f35b in the game is absolute crap at air to air and not much better at a2g the sidewinders are not internal only internal weapon are guided penetration bomb.the rest on pylons under the wings. the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.

Guess what: Ace Combat is not a realistic combat simulator. Even the better, older, games completely lacked BVR combat or any realistic treatment of stealth. Even more humorous, the F-35 is the only plane that would be anything like as easy to fly as the generic fighter in the game -- or give you the kind or situational awareness the gave gives you.
I won't even go into the piece of crap that is the most recent AC game.
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southernphantom
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2012 - 01:40 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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count_to_10 wrote:
warwolf1 wrote:
the f22 is good very good i have flown it in ace combat when i can. ive shot down more planes with it than other planes eg ef2000 coming second in planes shot down with it.but the f35b in the game is absolute crap at air to air and not much better at a2g the sidewinders are not internal only internal weapon are guided penetration bomb.the rest on pylons under the wings. the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.

Guess what: Ace Combat is not a realistic combat simulator. Even the better, older, games completely lacked BVR combat or any realistic treatment of stealth. Even more humorous, the F-35 is the only plane that would be anything like as easy to fly as the generic fighter in the game -- or give you the kind or situational awareness the gave gives you.
I won't even go into the piece of crap that is the most recent AC game.


Amen. I stick with Over-G for semi-simulators; it can at least be configured to give something approaching realistic SA. (And yes, the F-35 has the best!!)

The new AC game is positively awful. Quick-time events and incomprehensible counter-maneuvers?? I think we can leave it at that. . .
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checksixx
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2012 - 09:21 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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warwolf1 wrote:
the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.


....and what I can't understand is why you didn't google it before posting.

The F-35 has two weapons bays. The F-22 has four.

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stobiewan
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2012 - 02:11 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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warwolf1 wrote:
the f22 is good very good i have flown it in ace combat when i can. ive shot down more planes with it than other planes eg ef2000 coming second in planes shot down with it.but the f35b in the game is absolute crap at air to air and not much better at a2g the sidewinders are not internal only internal weapon are guided penetration bomb.the rest on pylons under the wings. the f35 is meant to be a gen 5 plane yes but i cannot understand why it only has one internal weapons bay.was it design flaw. the raptor would be a better buy than the f35b at any rate.


:facepalm:

dear God, this forum is going to the dogs.

Warwolf, shock news for you - there are folk on this forum who've flown, maintained and designed combat aircraft. It's a fabulous resource for clueless people (like me) to learn stuff.

Stop posting, start reading, you'll learn more.
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mk82
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2012 - 05:10 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Warwolf1.....you know what....I give up, I will just go back to my Ace Combat, its more stimulating than your posts! :p
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jayraptor
PostPosted: Aug 28, 2012 - 03:19 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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What warwolf1 meant is metaphorically that even game makers could tell the F-22 could perform better than F-35 in everything. He said the F-35 has only 1 internal bay mainly because it could only carry 4 AMRAAMs internally. F-22 centerline bay is considered 1 bay with 2 doors, so total 2 sides small + 1 center large.

Ace Combat has great graphics but it is 100% thrash designed by Arcade brain idiots without knowledge about aircraft. There is even a hybrid Robotech Valkyria + F-23 design aircraft final boss. Well, gamemakers no longer interested to make way better flight combat sims anymore. Just because of less profitable. With today's tech, they could have make a game that allows us to buy aircraft and attack neighboring country with realistic terrain, cities, airbases with AI movements like GTA. You could run from barrack to your aircraft like real thing, fly near city where there are civilians, fly near enemy airbase with ground troops scrambling and shooting at you with whatever guns they could find, etc.

Whereas for military, there are some that are lazy to learn more or place effort in getting things done. Just assume and jump to conclusion without even care to get actual results. Like X-32 and YF-23, abandoned without being developed further. Will things be better today if there are production model F-23A and F-32A serving the USAF? By right, the ATF chosen is compulsory to replace the F-14s in the Navy and F-15s in the Air Force. Why is that the Congress allows the F-22 to pass even though it failed to replace the F-14s? Where is the supposed F-22N? Another unfair competition? Back then everyone was expecting F-22N for replacing F-14 while F-23 for replacing F-15 but it turned out winner takes all for the 1st time.
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madrat
PostPosted: Aug 28, 2012 - 03:29 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Your immaturity is showing through in every post. A video game has a goal and it is not to be realistic. Just as the competitions for the stealths had goals which had nothing to do with being the ultimate designs. The X-32 and YF-23 programs lost because they were inferior programs. You can have all the fancy gadgets stuffed into one design and that does not secure the win. It has to be manufactureable, it has to be maintainable, it has to be working, and it has to be affordable. Neither program did well in key criteria and would have failed as programs. Crying about it doesn't alter reality.
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