Forum: F-16 News

Roscoe wrote:

Funny you should say that. In addition to my production duties, I also ran the Special Projects IPT. We were looking at some potential eye-watering upgrades to the Viper (eye-watering in terms of cost and capability) but politically could not pursue them without jeopardizing JSF (not to mention the budget was getting schwacked and we couldn't afford the upgrade. Then we sat back and watched the UAE deal develop.

Happens that way more than folks would believe, Roscoe. I remember working an F-16 program back when GD had IRAD budgets. "They" couldn't get it funded for F-16 so it went into the F-22. Our project was terminated for convenience so we knew the data was good. Smile

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southernphantom wrote:

IIRC, the F100 is used on the F-15, which has a moderate chance of another decade+ on production if the SE takes hold and even takes the place of some F-35A orders, as I suspect it may. The line would obviously have to remain open for a while on those, and I can't see the USAF flying aircraft for which engines are no longer built.

Both the F100/F110 are being used for new F-15 production for the time being, which will keep both in production like the Viper would.

As for flying aircraft for which new engines are no longer built;

When was the last time the TF33 was built new? Or the F101? The bulk of our bomber fleet is flying on engines that haven't been built 'new' for decades. Sure they make parts for them, but as you may read about costs and older engines, this is a prime reason to 'reengine' any aircraft.

While the F110/F100 have enjoyed decades of production and may soon be eclipsed by newer generations of fighter engines, the sheer number of these engines in the filed will ensure parts and services are available for decades to come.

New 'whole up' F110/F100 motors would likely cease to be available after F15/F-16 production stopped as a whole. (IE - If you want new GE-129 or PW-229 motors to upgrade your old jets, order them now!)

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

duplex wrote:

discofishing wrote:

Iraq is now buying Vipers and Indonesia is looking at second hand Block 25s. Pakistan can buy more, but how likely is that? Also, the UAE seems to have lost interest in the Rafail. Would they prefer some more F-16Es?

I think the UAE are playing the power negotiator to get the price down which puts Dassault in a difficult position because if they grant a big discount they may face price problems in India and Brazil so in the end the UAE will order the Rafale. France is the second most important strategic partner after the US and the UAE buys always from both.

I think they'd be better off with more F-16Es. I think it's a better all around platform for the UAE, especially since they already have 80 of them anyways.

Do the F110 and F101 share much in common? It seemed like the F101 was six or seven inches wider than F100. The F110 is wider than the F100, or is it just the fan stages that are wider?

madrat wrote:

Do the F110 and F101 share much in common? It seemed like the F101 was six or seven inches wider than F100. The F110 is wider than the F100, or is it just the fan stages that are wider?

I believe they share a 'common core' but that can be misleading.

The core could be identical, but with the F101's larger fan, the intermediate case between the core/fan would have to be larger. It's likely the compressor/bearing arrangement is nearly the same, but the cases or other hardware will likely be different to some extent.

I know there have been issues in the past with getting parts for older engines, the F101 has been part of that over the years.

This is also where the CIP (Continuous Improvement Program) funding is so important for engines, especially as they age. No funding for parts improvements and production and availability/durability issues can crop up without warning.

The thing that will save the TF33s for a long time is the amount of engines produced. Over 8000 engines world wide will give you a very large parts base to pool from. Removing old parts from scrapped engines, refurbishing them, modifying them, overhauls, etc and return them to service if nothing else.

Not so for the 400+ F101s produced exclusively for the B-1B program. Only so may parts to go around through the supply chain to be overhauled. Makes for an expensive engine to operate if you're the 'sole user' of a specific type.

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

madrat wrote:

Do the F110 and F101 share much in common? It seemed like the F101 was six or seven inches wider than F100. The F110 is wider than the F100, or is it just the fan stages that are wider?

This is why the Block 30/32 airframes where the first produced that could "swap" between the GE and PW if necessary, allowing for room for either to fit. Offcourse the actual swapping never occured, however it is possible to fit a GE engine in the block 32 airframe even if wider.

More details here;
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article6.html

Forum: F-16 News

End of F-16 production? Only 58 in backlog