Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

Last edited by qwe2008 on Aug 12, 2012 - 05:00 PM; edited 1 time in total

F-35 cannot carry 2000Ib Paveway in the weapon bay.
It carry JDAM instead, but it is less presice than Paveway.

The CEP of paveway is about 3 feet.
It's said that the CEP of JDAM is much bigger, about 40 feet.
Maybe the actual CEP is better than this, but it's still much worse than Paveway.

Boeing said that in the 1990s, the CEP od JDAM is already less than 33 feet in the test.
But even the newest GPS-guided weapons, SDB, the CEP is about 5~8 meters, nearly 6 times more than Paveway.

If JDAM's CEP is not improved in so many years, it's not precise enough for some hard-point targets.
Bad news for F-35.

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Only F-117A can carry 2000Ib Paveway, but all of them had been retired.

I believe that the CEP of JDAM should be much better now than in the 1990s.
Someone said that the CEP of SDB is about 10 feet, but there is no evidence.

Don't forget about LJDAM of which the 2k version can fit internal.

JDAM is reported to be managing a CEP of 8 metres in INS+GPS mode, rising to 14 metres if GPS is not available. Those figures were well within the 13 and 30 metres that was originally specified.

JDAMs greatly exceed their accuracy specifications (much better than 13m), "or so I have heard." They're designed to meet the 30m requirement without any GPS of their own, getting a hand-off from the aircraft's navigation system and operating purely on INS if need be, which explains the rumor that a JDAM destroyed a GPS jammer in Iraq.

SDB uses Differential GPS (D-GPS), which requires GPS to meet spec CEP (which is much smaller than JDAM).

Buy anyway, see Spudman's post, Paveway's not the only game in town for lasers.

Just to throw in my Two Cents

: You can debate the Pk of a weapon until the bovines RTB but in the end, the blast, frag, and over pressure of a modern smart bomb, even one as small as an SDB, will prolly be more than enough to fix most problems. Do ya want a shack on each drop? Absotively. And more often than not you get it. But even a miss of 30 feet or less may still render the target neutralized. It's only when one needs real precision (like putting a GBU into the mouth of a cave (thermobarics anyone?) or thru a particular door) that PAVEWAY or L-JDAM is the way to go.

JDAM will have laser guidance kits installed, some already have I believe.
Old Paveway models are being phased out.

JDAM is big.
SDB II is the weapon being developed with all kinds of guidance.

I think usually it's not needed for 3 feet precision and 2000lb ordnance, except bunker busting job, is which case a more specialized penetration bomb would do better.

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/ar ... bitn1.html

SDB targets operational testing

In less than four years, Boeing's Small Diameter Bomb has finished development testing and is now set for operational testing. A pace like that, said Boeing SDB Program Manager Dan Jaspering, is "unheard of."

The development test program included 37 test flights that put the SDB through numerous scenarios against various targets, including tanks, rocket launchers and an aircraft hidden in a reinforced bunker. The last test was a four-bomb drop Aug. 25. Through it all, the SDB missed its target aim point by a miniscule average of about 4 feet. "We're very proud of that," Jaspering said. "In a wartime situation, that's putting it in the right room, not just hitting a building."

The SDB system is a low-cost, precision-strike weapon system that can be mounted with internal or external carriages on fighters, bombers and unmanned combat air vehicles. The multipurpose weapon combines an inertial navigation system with the Global Positioning System for near-precision guidance. It has deployable wings for extended gliding, or standoff, range.

In April, SDB entered low-rate initial production with an order from the U.S. Air Force for 201 weapons and 35 carriages used to mount the weapons. Operational testing is scheduled to begin this fall.

SpudmanWP wrote:

Don't forget about LJDAM of which the 2k version can fit internal.

F-35 cannot carry LJDAM when SDD is end, maybe can carry at block IV.

Lase-guided bombs are not all-weather weapons.
And F-35 has to use laser to the target for a long time.

Who cares about IOC and LJDAM? Your initial thought was about the inability to physically use a weapon. Now you are complaining that a solution will not be available for the first two years of a 40+ year lifetime?

Who cares about IOC and LJDAM? Your initial thought was about the inability to physically use a weapon. Now you are complaining that a solution will not be available for the first two years of a 40+ year lifetime?

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I am not sure that F-35 can carry 2,000Ib LJDAM.
LJDAM is a little longer than standard JDAM, because of the laser seeker.

qwe2008 wrote:

Who cares about IOC and LJDAM? Your initial thought was about the inability to physically use a weapon. Now you are complaining that a solution will not be available for the first two years of a 40+ year lifetime?

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I am not sure that F-35 can carry 2,000Ib LJDAM.
LJDAM is a little longer than standard JDAM, because of the laser seeker.

The Laser JDAM has housed it's DSU-38/B laser seeker in the existing DSU-33C RF proximity fuze housing.

In other words, there is NO difference in length between a Laser JDAM and a legacy JDAM fitted with the legacy radio frequency proximity sensing fuse.

I imagine the F-35's bays were designed with the ability to fit a JDAM as well as it's fuse inside them...

The JDAM has demonstrated CEPs of 6m or less, and the Product Improvement Program updates provide CEPs of 3m or less. This being the case, the whole Paveway/LJDAM IOC discussion, is a non-issue.

Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

The CEP of JDAM