Forum: General F-35 Forum

They've just developed laser designator packages for 2.75" rockets. They pack into small spaces, would fill a roll in CAS, and are relatively cheap. There are also cheaper IR packages developed for the USN and USMC that fit on the same rockets. Then you have several Stinger options. The tech is there if they commit to it.

I would think rotary cannon are an unnecessary luxury. Why not move towards auto-aim and rifled barrels. What they can do with auto-aim is amazing using much smaller calibers and non-trivial distances. It won't lead to one shot-one kill guns in air to air duels, but you don't need that massive M61 to achieve nearly perfect kill opportunities.

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Did you forget about LG cannon shells.... Why pack the extra weight and space for a rocket motor if gravity can do the work for you?

When was the last time a gun kill was even scored in real life? In all seriousness there's no reason to even give so much attention to a stinger "aerial PDW" weapon if AMRAAMs, JDRADM's, and AIM-9Xs can get the job done better at greater ranges. What good is sneaking up on an F-35 if said F-35 and his wingman can see you, give a rough estimate on range via triangulation of position data via DAS, and then launch any number of larger, more powerful and better ranged missiles than a stinger at you?

All these missile concepts in place of the gun, remind me of the "Air Mine" in Dale Browns EB-52 Megafortress in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Old-Dog-Dale-Brown/dp/042519518X/ref=sr_1_1_title_2_mas?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337538958&sr=1-1">"Flight of the Old Dog"</a>
Personally I think the guided bullets are more plausible (and as already noted guns have air to ground uses as well).

FlightDreamz wrote:

All these missile concepts in place of the gun, remind me of the "Air Mine" in Dale Browns EB-52 Megafortress in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Old-Dog-Dale-Brown/dp/042519518X/ref=sr_1_1_title_2_mas?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337538958&sr=1-1">"Flight of the Old Dog"</a>
Personally I think the guided bullets are more plausible (and as already noted guns have air to ground uses as well).

Something like that. The problem is, guns are very heavy -- something around a thousand pounds when ammo is included. You might be more weight efficient with small missiles for air and ground.

Look at the Russian and Euro guns. They're smaller than the rotary guns but still, IMO a waste of space, weight, and $/

Come to think of it I am reminded of those flying disk missiles that were designed that were intended to be used as self defense missiles for the B-70 supersonic bomber. Needless to say they were unstable as all hell (which meant that were extremely maneuverable assuming the engineers could build in one heck of a FCS to maintain relaxed stability) and were intended to fly at mach 7 to intercept SAMs. I have my doubts that they could get something like this to work right anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pye_Wacket

I still stand firm by my belief that such a small yet extraordinarily sophisticated secondary weapon would be a waste of money to put into every variant of the F-35.

count_to_10 wrote:

Something like that. The problem is, guns are very heavy -- something around a thousand pounds when ammo is included. You might be more weight efficient with small missiles for air and ground.

The GAU-22 in the F-35A weighs 406lbs (complete with magazine and 10 lbs under the spec). It's ammo weighs 1.1lbs each (192 rounds @ 211 lbs ammo total) for a grand total of 617lbs.

Another benefit of a gun in that it can be designed to fit into the spaces not taken up by the engine, weapons bay, avionics, etc. A dedicated mini-missile pod would be bulky and hard to place within the airframe.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006garm/thursday/maher.pdf
http://www.gdatp.com/factsheets/A079_F- ... g%20II.pdf
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_25mm_mk38.htm

tacf-x wrote:

When was the last time a gun kill was even scored in real life? In all seriousness there's no reason to even give so much attention to a stinger "aerial PDW" weapon if AMRAAMs, JDRADM's, and AIM-9Xs can get the job done better at greater ranges. What good is sneaking up on an F-35 if said F-35 and his wingman can see you, give a rough estimate on range via triangulation of position data via DAS, and then launch any number of larger, more powerful and better ranged missiles than a stinger at you?

I believe a Hog shot down a Hip in '91. It...uh...disintegrated Embarassed

Double Post

Hawgs got two gun kills in 91.

Hawgs still can shoot at Helo'[Link pending approval]

But 20 years later, the F-35 will be dealing with more sophisticated prey.

Forum: General F-35 Forum

F-35 may change everything we know about modern dogfighting?