Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

arkadyrenko wrote:

Finally, intercept missions are not long range missions, at least for the European nations is responding to airspace violations. In that case, the plane won't be traveling very far and so it won't need large amounts of gas, etc. For those missions, the Eurofighter will probably be more optimized for the fast sprint out than JSF, which was designed for transonic flight. Remember, the Eurofighter has those recessed missile slots as well to reduce parasitic drag.

If you say so.
http://files.air-attack.com/MIL/eurofig ... 070822.jpg
2 bags and 8 missiles is not exactly clean.

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Since one of the design points of the F-35 was to be able to spend a huge amount of time on clean internal fuel for obvious reasons it is therefore reasonable to state that all of those stores being placed on the EF certainly isn't going to make the Typhoon's life easier in terms of interference drag, pressure drag, skin friction drag, wave drag, etc. due to carrying 8 missiles which is far more than can be carried on the conformal ejectors so the classic pylon will certainly still be an issue common to all non-VLO fighters. Also there's the fact that once the F-35's fuel is lowered to a much smaller level it will be operating at, say 50% internal fuel capacity while the EF will have a much higher (possibly 100%) internal fuel capacity after dropping the tanks on the way to intercept or immediately before engagement.

All of this would certainly have to add up to the F-35 generally having a favorable SEP against the Eurofighter so in the end F-35 would win no matter how one were to look at it (whether from the maneuvering or the "maneuvering is irrelevant" camps.)

I read somewhere that the reason Silent Eagle carries the missiles internally is to help enable high speed ops in addition to the LO issue.

I wonder if one can get Ps diagrams and related data for the 4th gens and so-called 4.5th gens with EFTs. How many missions do these planes do without them and under what circumstances are they dropped?

I don't know about the maneuvering is relevant school favoring F-35 over Typhoon. There's a lot to be said in the Ps department for building a hot rod. Not as much in the combat effectiveness department. Look at the P-47 and P-51 vs Spit and 109.

Spit pilot: "I challenge you to a dogfight."
P-51 pilot: "Sure. The fight's over Heligoland tomorrow at 9.
Spit pilot: "I can't get there."
P-51 pilot: "That's where the fight is."

wrightwing wrote:

And now to get back on topic. The F-35 sensors/fusion, and reduced signature, will result in a first look first shoot advantage versus the EF.

The EF will actually fire first against every other aircraft oponent except VLO, which is unlikely within the unlikely. Your claim here doesnt make much sense.

wrightwing wrote:

The F-35's low speed handling should be superior, especially combined with 360 deg spherical engagement ability.

You dont even have the faintest data about the F-35 to make even a guess of low speed perfomance and I never heard of this capability to be a primary design requirement. The EF is one of the most agile aircraft at slow speed. Its going to be rather difficult for you to back your claim up.

Pilotasso wrote:

wrightwing wrote:

And now to get back on topic. The F-35 sensors/fusion, and reduced signature, will result in a first look first shoot advantage versus the EF.

The EF will actually fire first against every other aircraft oponent except VLO, which is unlikely within the unlikely. Your claim here doesnt make much sense

Are you saying that the EF will have first shoot advantage over the F-35? If yes, why Question

@Pilotasso: That made no sense. You stated that the EF "will not" get FL/FS (First Look / First Shot) against a VLO fighter and Wrightwing said that the F-35 "will" get FL/FS against the EF. Those two statements are one in the same.

SpudmanWP wrote:

@Pilotasso: That made no sense. You stated that the EF "will not" get FL/FS (First Look / First Shot) against a VLO fighter and Wrightwing said that the F-35 "will" get FL/FS against the EF. Those two statements are one in the same.

It makes sense if the question is "F-35 vs EF against percieved threat" rather than "scenario where F-35 fights EF".

Precisely

ok, That makes sense.

Here is one potential F-35 vs EF scenario, the Saudi Arabian monarchy gets overthrown by Islamic extremists and we (or Israel) have to go in and "take care of it".

wrightwing wrote:

The F-35's low speed handling should be superior, especially combined with 360 deg spherical engagement ability.

You dont even have the faintest data about the F-35 to make even a guess of low speed perfomance and I never heard of this capability to be a primary design requirement. The EF is one of the most agile aircraft at slow speed. Its going to be rather difficult for you to back your claim up.[/quote]

http://f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-15345.html

If the F-16 has better performance at lower-speed sections than the Eurofighter, I think its safe to say that the F-35 would be superior to the Eurofighter in that regime due to "F-18-like performance"

SWP:

EF but out some BS about using AWACS to position the Typhoon 30 degrees off the nose of the F-35 and slaughtering them.

Looked like a Carlo Kopp/Bill Sweetman production to me.

Yeah I saw that. I always wondered how they knew where they were coming from in order to get the angles "just right" Wink

What would happen in that "scenario" if the F-35 turned towards the Typhoon?

Oh wait, they're not "allowed" to do that. Otherwise they would win.

Pilotasso wrote:

The EF will actually fire first against every other aircraft oponent except VLO, which is unlikely within the unlikely. Your claim here doesnt make much sense.

Firing first, requires seeing first.

wrightwing wrote:

The F-35's low speed handling should be superior, especially combined with 360 deg spherical engagement ability.

Quote:

You dont even have the faintest data about the F-35 to make even a guess of low speed perfomance and I never heard of this capability to be a primary design requirement. The EF is one of the most agile aircraft at slow speed. Its going to be rather difficult for you to back your claim up.

The Typhoon has better high speed agility, than low speed agility. That's where it's optimized, which is why the Rafale tends to do better up close, and at lower speeds. The F-35 has lots of thrust to maintain energy, and superior nose pointing(remember, even the A model exceeds the Super Hornet's nose pointing).

SpudmanWP wrote:

ok, That makes sense.

Here is one potential F-35 vs EF scenario, the Saudi Arabian monarchy gets overthrown by Islamic extremists and we (or Israel) have to go in and "take care of it".

Potential?? I see that as frighteningly likely, quite frankly. If it did happen, I suspect that Israel, Jordan, and some other nearby nations would receive a lot of F-15s as the Saudi royalist pilots defected to avoid being purged. We all know what happened in Iran.

Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

F-35 vs Eurofighter?