Forum: General F-35 Forum

Norway ready to reconsider LM F-35 Lightning II programme (with 2008 VIDEO)
Washington, USA - 19 April 2012

http://www.avionews.com/index.php?corpo ... =index.php

"Our Joint Strike Fighter must be equipped with braking parachutes."

"If there should happen to be something that would really affect the cost curves in the next months, in the next years, all nations including Norway will, of course, reconsider the whole project. I have no reasons to believe that. I was more nervous two years ago than I am today" Norway's minister of defence Roger Ingebrigtsen said.

"The best we can get is the F-35. There is a reason that a nation like Japan, which has signed onto the programme comparatively late, has selected the stealthy fifth-generation jet for its arsenal. But US support for the F-35 is critical" he added, specifying that the politicians in the United States must stay strong on the programme.

Norway has planned to buy 52 Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II multi-role fighter aircraft; but even with its increasing oil wealth, the nation cannot afford to pay for all of those aircraft at the same time.

In addition, is to be noted that Norwegian F-35s must be equipped with a braking parachute to operate on icy runways in the far North, and this is a compulsory point Oslo specified on its order. "Lockheed Martin needs to solve this. We need parachutes on the first fighter we procure" the minister ended."

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Our minister of Defense is not Roger Ingebritsen ( whoever that is?), the Minister of Defense is Espen Barth-Eide.

He is the deputy defense minister.

Roger Ingebrigtsen is State Secretary for The Ministry of Defence from June 18, 2010.

http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/fd/the ... ?id=610369

Norway was recently offered talks with Boeing considering buying the Super Hornet as a stop gap for the F-35. The talks were rejected by the MOD.
http://e24.no/makro-og-politikk/forsvar ... e/20194561

You know that means he is not a part of the government right? and is pretty much just a glorified assistant.

edit;

I'd only pay attention to what barth-eide says, everyone and everything has an opinion in these matters, even the minister of children and equality has expressed his views on these matters before.

This is the latest statement from Barth-Eide conserning acquisition of the F-35 i found.

http://www.an.no/nyheter/article5989888.ece

translated;

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... mp;act=url

norseman wrote:

You know that means he is not a part of the government right? and is pretty much just a glorified assistant.

edit;

I'd only pay attention to what barth-eide says, everyone and everything has an opinion in these matters, even the minister of children and equality has expressed his views on these matters before.

This is the latest statement from Barth-Eide conserning acquisition of the F-35 i found.

http://www.an.no/nyheter/article5989888.ece
I386

translated;

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... mp;act=url

Lifetime cost now estimated to be 10%lower than in 2008? That's encouraging., Overall, strong support for the F-35 in Norway. No need for Boeing's proposal really as Norway's F-16s are apparently undergoing the appropriate life extension,measures to allow a proper transition to the new jet.

Government may trim F35 order
April 16, 2012

Norwegian government officials are now admitting that the huge costs of replacing the country’s current fleet of F16 fighter jets will likely cut into state funding for schools, health care and transport programs. The government may decide to trim its order, from 52 of the new F35 jets to 46.
“When we need to allocate NOK 4 billion a year in addition to the defense budget, which already is the biggest per capita in Europe, there have to be consequences somewhere,” Defense Minister Espen Barth Eide told newspaper Bergens Tidende over the weekend.
Eide said that’s why his ministry is expanding the acquisition period, to spread the costs over more years.
He said planned flying time for the jets may also be reduced, to save money. Last spring, planned flying time was set at 12,640 hours a year. That’s been cut to 9,100 hours in the military’s new long-term plan.
Eide said pilots can train in advanced simulators, saving around NOK 120 million a year in fuel costs alone.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/04/16/ ... f35-order/

Norseman. How many F16's Norway has flying at the moment ... 57?
Anything known in Norway about updating the F16?

Here is Norway's New Long-Term Military Plans
The Norwegian Government presented the new Long term plan for Defence.

http://www.tnp.no/norway/panorama/2870- ... tary-plans

"In the proposed plan the established defence policy goals and ambitions are corroborated. The Government’s ambition to procure 52 F-35 fighter jets is confirmed.

As a result of the gradual decreasing expenditure in Afghanistan, a reallocation of approx. 634 mill NOK will fund activity in Norway, specifically for the Army and the Home Guard. A temporary increase in the investment budget of 22-28 billion NOK is linked to the F-35 acquisition. The plan is now awaiting parliamentary approval, expected in June 2012....

...Air Force
The acquisition of new fighter aircraft, with the accompanying reform of the base- and support structure, will serve as a catalyst for adjustment of the entire Air Force structure. By concentrating main activity to a fewer number of bases, and by further cultivating competency, more resources will be available for operational activity.

Government recommends that the new main base for the fighter jets is Ørland airbase. A forward operating base will be established at Evenes. Aircraft assigned to the QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) role, will be permanently based here. Ørland is the one base best meeting the criteria regarding daily training conditions. Evenes is the preferred base for forward deployment, by both our own and allied air forces. Basing the jets at Ørland and Evenes has few and acceptable environmental impacts, especially regarding noise. The combination is also considered to be the best choice regarding possible future development, particularly since Ørland is an existing military air base, providing the necessary flexibility for the next 30-40 years. This solution is a sound choice from a security policy standpoint, has an acceptable cost and development potential....

...The F-35 acquisition
The Government’s ambition for the defence sector remains steadfast. A total acquisition of 52 F-35s fulfills this ambition. A final decision on the last six jets will be made after the first 46 jets have been procured.

The government is considering spreading the acquisition over an increased number of years to even out the requirement for additional funding pertaining to the individual budget year. Options being considered are taking delivery of the first training aircraft earlier than planned, and prolonging the period of acquisition.

The recently updated Norwegian cost analysis and risk analysis confirm that our national estimates are still valid. The investment cost is expected to be about the same as estimated in 2008. The lifecycle cost is estimated to have decreased by approx. 10 %. Updated numbers will be presented to Parliament before ordering the main body of aircraft.

A temporary increase in the investment budget of 22-28 billion NOK, spread over the entire acquisition period, is linked to the F-35 acquisition. By the end of the four year period 2013-2016, the defence budget will stand at three billion NOK above the 2012 budget, as a consequence of the temporary increase related to the procurement of the F-35...."

m wrote:

Norseman. How many F16's Norway has flying at the moment ... 57?
Anything known in Norway about updating the F16?

We have 57 operational F16!

We will not upgrade the F16s further at this point (beyond what was decided years ago), there have been talks about leasing F16s from other European countries or USA if the F35 program will be delayed to the point where we have "too few" flying F16s.

article about it;

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 5Fr-MVRBc0

norseman wrote:

Our minister of Defense is not Roger Ingebritsen ( whoever that is?), the Minister of Defense is Espen Barth-Eide.

spazsinbad wrote:

He is the deputy defense minister.

He is a civil servant in the defense department. Almost like a company secretary and he is an employee and not an elected official. Typically his position is replaced whenever a new Minister of Defense takes office. The current Minister of Defense, Barth-Eide, was previously in the State Secretary position. Don’t mix with the US position title State Secretary as they are not the same.

jacarlsen wrote:

Norway was recently offered talks with Boeing considering buying the Super Hornet as a stop gap for the F-35. The talks were rejected by the MOD.
http://e24.no/makro-og-politikk/forsvar ... e/20194561

It would be plain stupid to get F-18's at this stage. Everything is different than on the F-16, so total retraining and new facilities would be necessary. Even suggesting it is so far out there I'm shocked. Rolling Eyes

m wrote:

Government may trim F35 order
April 16, 2012

Norwegian government officials are now admitting that the huge costs of replacing the country’s current fleet of F16 fighter jets will likely cut into state funding for schools, health care and transport programs. The government may decide to trim its order, from 52 of the new F35 jets to 46.
“When we need to allocate NOK 4 billion a year in addition to the defense budget, which already is the biggest per capita in Europe, there have to be consequences somewhere,” Defense Minister Espen Barth Eide told newspaper Bergens Tidende over the weekend.
Eide said that’s why his ministry is expanding the acquisition period, to spread the costs over more years.
He said planned flying time for the jets may also be reduced, to save money. Last spring, planned flying time was set at 12,640 hours a year. That’s been cut to 9,100 hours in the military’s new long-term plan.
Eide said pilots can train in advanced simulators, saving around NOK 120 million a year in fuel costs alone.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/04/16/ ... f35-order/

Norseman. How many F16's Norway has flying at the moment ... 57?
Anything known in Norway about updating the F16?

I think I saw in the video from Edvards AFB of the Norwegian visitors that a program to re-wing the Norwegian Vipers is under way or planned. It was stated the Norway’s F-16's have the highest number of hours of all EPAF countries and with further delays in F-35 deliveries new wings seem a good stop gap. Certainly better than buying f--g Hornets. (Excuse the technical language.)

"If there should happen to be something that would really affect the cost curves in the next months, in the next years, all nations including Norway will, of course, reconsider the whole project. I have no reasons to believe that. I was more nervous two years ago than I am today" Norway's minister of defence Roger Ingebrigtsen said.

This is how you survive in politics. He said both yes and no. He's covering all contingencies while reiterating the government position. In short, he say didn't anything.