Forum: Off-topic

Every so often Uncle Fidel down in Cuba gets a burr under his saddle and has to have a 4-hour speech about how the U.S. will never be able to succeed in a Cuban invasion or defeat the "spirit of the revolution" (I suppose he thinks the sugar cane fields are an American strategic necessity to placate the Starbucks lobby in DC). And just recently they held "war games" to demonstrate their "ability" to fend off said American Imperialist attack. Fulcrums, anti-armor, the full show.

Now's your chance to be a Theater Commander: Knowing the caliber of the intellect residing on the Board, in the mind-numbingly unliklihood that for some reason a situation arose where push came to shove and we invade Cuba, who wants to discuss how long the operation would take (days? weeks?) and how we'd go about doing it? Figure on China and Russia staying out of the mix and the strategic goal being along the lines of an Afghan scenario, removing the existing regime and standing up a government based on democratic principles with free and open elections no more than 2 years after cessation of hostilities. And don't count out an insurgency, funded from within and without, this time.

Except for Chavez in Venezuela, how many stalwart allies in Latin America does Cuba have that would engage the US in combat operations to support Castro?

Take your time, think about it, and chime in when you're ready. Smile

F-16.net Sponsor

No need to invade, he will die of old age soon. When he does Cuba will become the biggest tourist resort in the world. He has repressed that country so much it is crazy. Think about how they could be the Hawaii of the east but no, capitalism is evil. Watch the boats go the other way in 5 years.

We've pi$$ed away so many good chances to nail Castro, it's not even funny. Bay of Pigs, various Spook Ops, you name it. If Kennedy hadn't been so busy getting serviced by Marilyn, he might've been on the ball. Of course, the same could be said with Kennedy and Vietnam, but that's a whole can of worms that I don't even want to open up. Fact of the matter is: we had chances. We didn't take them. Sammy Gianncana, and I believe Joe Bonnano even offered to make Castro disappear. Problem with that would be that it would have exposed, quite blatantly, Kennedy's involvment in organized crime. It's not all Jack's fault, but he was the first to really deal with the situation. However, we've had 8 presidents since Jack, and none of them seem to be willing to do anything with Fidel either. So, basically, I'm with Erik. That b@$t@rd will kick off sooner or later. I'll be surprised if he makes it through the next decade. I just hope they keep Homestead and Gitmo open after Cuba becomes our allies again.

But anyway...my invasion plan, if that's what it comes down to. Airstrikes on Havana, and Mariel Harbor, with aircraft and cruise missiles. Tomahawk strikes on the Presidential Palace, and quickly follow this with Navy SEAL, and Green Beret raids on strategic locations. This would be followed with an amphibious assault by Marines from the now-destroyed Mariel Harbor, and then airlift a couple Marine regiments into Havana from Gitmo. Just in case any MiGs did get airborne before the initial airstrikes took out every communist-controlled runway in Cuba, we'd have the 482nd FW from Homestead patrolling the Straits of Florida, and a couple stratigically-placed carriers on the west and east sides of the island. Navy and Marine fighters could also use Gitmo as a staging area, much like a modern-day Da Nang if you will. Oh yeah, don't worry too much about insurgents. Cubans hate Castro more than they admit. The minute they see US Marines land in downtown Havana, they will drop their AKs, mark my words.

However, like I said before, I doubt any of this will be necessary, as Uncle Fidel is due to be muerto muy pronto. My 2 cents.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

TC wrote:

However, like I said before, I doubt any of this will be necessary, as Uncle Fidel is due to be muerto muy pronto. My 2 cents.

Maybe he'll hasten it a bit if he keeps takin' face dives like he did recently. I gave him a "6.5" for artistic form but a solid "10" for at least tryin' it. Wink

Did you see the spoof they did on SNL just before the U.S. elections? Amy Poehler said something to the effect of: "President Bush attempted to win a majority of the Cuban vote during his final swing through Florida this week, by shooting Fidel Castro." It then shows the footage of him walking out, with the sound effect of a pump action shotgun in the background. Laughing

Great stuff. Maybe he'll take a nose dive off the Morro Castle Lighthouse, and make it permanent!

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Please. Not another nation build job. I think I'm gonna be sick...

( insert visuals of someone running to the bathroom to throw up, including sound effects. ) Laughing

I agree ELP. The one(s?) we are/were(?) on have gone on long enough. But I do want to see Cuba be a free society in my lifetime. It was corrupt when Bautista was in power. It's been corrupt under Castro since '59. Hopefully it will change soon. My $$$ is on Castro's brother being kidnapped and blasted around the same time Castro kicks off. Oh yeah, BTW, I wouldn't worry TOO much about the Cuban Army if we did decide to invade. Remember Grenada?

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

When Fidel finally does die its going to create turmoil in that country because he hasn't picked a successor yet.
As for an invasion I think a few airstrikes to take out his air force and then drop the 82nd in Havanna followed by tyhe 101st should be enough to do the job. But when one goes to war one never knows. After all nobody predicted the insurgency in Iraq that's going on now.

I don't normally wish harm on anyone, but I make an exception in Fidel's case! I want to see another face plant on worldwide TV!!! I can't wait for that old fart to kick the bucket! I've read about the golden years in Cuba, back when Havana was the jewel of the Caribbean with nightlife like Vegas and a tropical climate. Ferries from the mainland bringing tourists, casinos, dancing and fun... now that's my kind of place! I can't wait to see those days return!

I have to give credit to the Cuban people, too. I can't believe how innovative they've had to be to keep those vintage American cars running with Russian hardware. They also appear to give each other support when they need it. I feel sorry for all the people who have to hide their Christmas spirit from the government, too. Can you believe that the Cuban government made the US embassy take down its Christmas decorations??? Yeah, come to think of it, I can too. It's par for the course.

Now if I was going to take down Fidel and his commie friends, I think I'd go with as many carriers were available and a couple of Marine expeditionary forces. Throw in some Green Berets and Navy Seals for good measure with airstirkes from the heavies on strategic targets.

I don't think you'd see any real "insurgency" like in Iraq for a few reasons. First, I think the people would be overjoyed at Fidel's departure. Second, we're dealing with far fewer former regime members than in Iraq. Third, there are no enemy countries with land borders directly adjoining Cuba. The enemy countries I'm talking about with respect to Iraq are Syria and Iran. Both have financed, trained, and given access to people who wish to attack the US. Mortar attacks on US troops originate on Syrian soil. Terrorist organizations have public offices in Damascus. Last, but not least, there are so many families that have been separated by Fidel as one part of the family lives in the US and the other part in Cuba isn't allowed to visit for fear of defection.

So I can't wait and I don't think I'm the only one. I have one question, though. The US agreed not to invade Cuba as part of the solution to the Cuban Missile Crisis. We made that agreement with the USSR, a country which no longer exists. If Fidel kicks the bucket and the US decides to help out with troops, how would this be construed. My basis for the question is the ABM treaty which the US recently pulled out of. We made that agreement with the USSR also, but we still honored it. Any opinions?
Free Havana!!!

parrothead wrote:

The US agreed not to invade Cuba as part of the solution to the Cuban Missile Crisis. We made that agreement with the USSR, a country which no longer exists. If Fidel kicks the bucket and the US decides to help out with troops, how would this be construed.

The withdrawl from the ABM Treaty would be the precedent to use. The agreement was with a coalition that is no more, so the agreement is null-n-void.

Now....I don't want to make this political but who was in the "Oral Office" in the years after Eastern Europe fell? Billy Jeff ("BJ" to the interns Wink

) was way too risk-averse to attempt a Cuban invasion even with Fidel's well-equipped Big Brother no longer around. Wouldn't wanna upset the MTV crowd who just helped him get elected with GIs getting killed on TV, anti-war protests on the National Mall, or having the US be seen as a bully in our own back yard in the act of national defense or well-being in the Western Hemisphere.

(Putting on the Devil's Advocate hat) Much to the disappointment and chagrin of Miami's Cuban community, I think the US opted instead to let Fidel try to make himself irrelavent by continuing to preach on the virtues of a political dogma that had failed miserably, live on world-wide TV, right in front of the eyes of the world. Would Communism have caved in Cuba had we overrode the Cuban Broadcasting System (CBS.....what a co-inkydink!) and beamed footage of the events of 1989 to the Cuban populace and given them some inspiration? We'll never know. Evil or Very Mad

If the Cuban populace is secretly yearning for democracy like you suggest (which I agree is the case), we may not need to send troops initially. It may be a Fool's Folly but we might just see a semi-bloodless transistion to something resembling a democracy. (fingers crossed) Heads will roll to be sure but hopefully bloodshed will be minimized. TC brought up Castro's little brother as perhaps the heir apparant. Depending on how loyal certain units of the Cuban military are to "El Hermano Pequeno", they may do a Jimmy Hoffa on him and we may indeed see something like what happened in '89, where once news of the fall of the regime got out, the civilian masses took to the streets in celebrations and stared down the troops lined up against them. Then once a de-Castro'ed interim government is in place and recognized (by the US at a minimum and the OAS as a best case) we'd be in a better postion to offer forces at their request. But make no mistake: if the regime falls and the US senses something bad is about to happen, a QRF will go in to try and stabilize things, no permission or resolutions asked.

In the meantime it's my earnest hope that higher level Cuban officers have an organized stand-down planned and ready to execute the moment Fidel finally assumes room temperature.

I have to agree with you Link. I'd have loved to see us beam in all the images of the people of Berlin partying up on the wall. I was born in Dec of '76, so I grew up as many did knowing nothing but the Iron Curtain. I sat there in my living room watching with my jaw hanging open as those people celebrated freedom. I cheered a bit myself when the people of Romania hanged their opressor. I'm not normally political on this forum, but I have to speak my mind on this one and come out for FREEDOM!!!
I just can't wait...

Well, the main thing is that according to my friends who ran from Cuba to Russia using their Russian relatives, the regime is as healthy as Castro himself. What wargames do they care about if even cuban minister's son had to eat fried bananas 24-7 there until he and his russian mother had left for RF.

On the other hand, russian tourists say that although the ride there and back is about 800 bucks the rest of time you won't have to spend more than 100 bucks a week ***. Make your conclusions.

I think Cuban people just feel that waiting for Castro's death won't take too long. So US doesn't really have to spend its money or time - that's gonna be a waste of money and time. Let the old dead tree fall on its own. Lets buy some more Raptors instead, OK? They look beautiful.

DerLoos, that's what I was basically thinking Wink

. I just wish it would happen sooner!

Quote:

What wargames do they care about if even cuban minister's son had to eat fried bananas 24-7 there until he and his russian mother had left for RF.

That's a good point and thanks for making me laugh Very Happy

! I don't mean to be cruel or anything by laughing, but the fried bananas 24-7 hit my funny bone!

Do you think US, OAS, or UN aid will be needed when Fidel finally croakes and if so, how much?

Yes, I understand you haven't ment to be cruelly joking and thank God the boyi's now succesful. Having come to Russian in his 14 when he couldn't speak Russian at all now he's a successful student of Aviation Institute being finishing his diploma. Everything's good that ends up good! Wink

What concerns aid I think we should keep f#@kin' UN as far away from ANY catastrophic situation in this world AS POSSIBLE!! But US should be careful. From 50's US are still remembered by old cubans as the people who were using Cuba as a house of mess with gambling, cheap prostitutes and so on, and besides, it's pity to tell but US now has a very certain reputation worldwide so US should just be careful and helpful like Mother Tereza. U know what I mean. By doing so we are killing two beasts: 1) Helping Cuban people survive; 2) Increasing our reputation, giving example to other countries how good it is to be US ally. Uthopia - one may answer but that's my point of view....

Forum: Off-topic

Operation "Adios Fidel": War games anyone?