Forum: Program and politics

Italian F-35A/Bs = Romanian F-16C/Ds Blk 52. Non-sense expense. It would be just a European tribute to the US.
Solution? Simple. Italy is an Eurofighter Typhoon partner. Just do like the Germans , France with the Rafale and Sweden with the Gripen. With YOUR taxes, buy YOUR fighter, built by YOUR workers, with full technology access by YOU, give the money to YOUR people, no one will complain about this circle.

The Typhoon, with its normal lifespan upgrades, will probably qualify for any NATO standard for the next 30-40 years, just like the Tornados or the F-16A/Bs did at the end of the ‘70ies.

15 billions EUR for 600-800 jobs. let's rise it to 1000 even. 15,000,000.00 EUR for a Job. I don't think that any US congressman would allow importing anything expensive like this.

15 billions EUR for 600-800 jobs. let's rise it to 1000 even. 15,000,000.00 EUR for a Job. I don't think that any US congressman would allow importing anything expensive like this.

With regards to Spuds comments above - paraphrased; "Good thing the USAF is not going to war now", or in the near-term one could add (hopefully), that sort of criticism is perfectly justified and has in fact been a large part of the basis behind many critics for years now. P.S. I actually don't perceive Spud as a so-called 'cheerleader' of sorts, as Spud has indeed been posting latest news related items be they positively spun news or not so positive.

A very good thing, because all those PAK-FA's, J-20's, Su-35's, the so-called "reference threats" out there would absolutely eat up the legacy F-15's, F-16's and F/A-18's out there wouldn't they?

Oh wait...

We're not buying planes now, to deal with threats now. We're buying planes to deal with threats for the next 40yrs or more. Enemy airpower and SAMs aren't going to rest on their laurels.

I agree, I was addressing Geogen's point (it seems to me, based on his history here) that the USAF is out-matched somehow by the "advanced threats" being rolled out by China and Russia, despite the reality that neither China or Russia has a more capable individual fighter in-service than the F-15C, let alone the F-22A and won't for decades given the glacial pace of development of modern fighters in both countries, let alone advanced 5th generation designs.

All those "reference threats" are a decade or more away from providing any TRUE capability. The ability to fly a few circuits, look good in photos and equal it's landings and take-offs is not what most military forces refers to as a "capability" but they are certainly good enough for many on the www as proof of over-matching "capability" from the future Russian and Chinese designs.

If that's not what Geogen was referring to, I'll eat my hat...

Italian F-35A/Bs = Romanian F-16C/Ds Blk 52. Non-sense expense. It would be just a European tribute to the US.
Solution? Simple. Italy is an Eurofighter Typhoon partner. Just do like the Germans , France with the Rafale and Sweden with the Gripen. With YOUR taxes, buy YOUR fighter, built by YOUR workers, with full technology access by YOU, give the money to YOUR people, no one will complain about this circle.
The Typhoon, with its normal lifespan upgrades, will probably qualify for any NATO standard for the next 30-40 years, just like the Tornados or the F-16A/Bs did at the end of the ‘70ies.
If a European Country has to buy any military hardware (and they don’t), they should just quit wasting European money on American goodies, simple as this.

15 billions EUR for 600-800 jobs. let's rise it to 1000 even. 15,000,000.00 EUR for a Job. I don't think that any US congressman would allow importing anything expensive like this.

Who do the Italians need to defend against? The Turks will clean the Italian clock, so-to-speak. And there isn't anybody else in the neighborhood the Italians should worry themselves about. Curious. The Italians cannot afford and they do not require F-35. The platform is a waste of money - which they do not have.

Respectfully offered. We've been clubbing baby harp seals for decades. The big animal sticks are our strategic and anti-strategic defensive systems as well as our surveillance. Italy lives under this umbrella nonchalantly. It would be swell to have the Italians acquire F-35 for interoperability. But not if this breaks their bank or they end up with diminished capability vice what they can afford or we, the US, can afford to comp them. Economies and contractor practices, as well as software development, are the primary challenges today. So big stick against whom with the Italian Job?

Respectfully offered. We've been clubbing baby harp seals for decades. The big animal sticks are our strategic and anti-strategic defensive systems as well as our surveillance. Italy lives under this umbrella nonchalantly. It would be swell to have the Italians acquire F-35 for interoperability. But not if this breaks their bank or they end up with diminished capability vice what they can afford or we, the US, can afford to comp them. Economies and contractor practices, as well as software development, are the primary challenges today. So big stick against whom with the Italian Job?

IMO, we (the US ) need to stop being a cop and the world knows we may not be the one saving their butts forever. Ever read about WWI? How about WWII? If you did you know after both of them everyone said this was the last war. Both times they were wrong. So many people think WWIII will never happen. They're wrong. It will come, and not the way people think. It's always a new type of war. The rest of the world knows this. Most of the US people have been told for over 20 years that the "Cold war" is over. They're wrong, it just changed. The new war is going to be over food, fuel, water, and freedom (aka people's right to live how they want). In this new war it will be more importmant to protect your home land than attack. Air power is the most important fighting force. No one has won a war without control of the sky in 100 years. If you need to make cuts it should not be to your airforce. If they own your skys they own you. The Italians know this. I know, I know many of them. They remember what blitzkrieg did. Ask the iraqi republican guard what they did when a pair of B-52's flaten the tank battalion on each side of them with one pass. you know what they did? They ran away from their tanks screaming, because there was nothing they could do but run or die. The rest of the world remembers what airpower can do, when will our people?

My TSFG