Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

The F-22 has a lifespan of 30 years or 8000 flight hours, whichever comes first.

Fortunately they haven't been burning down those flight hours lately. Sad

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hcobb wrote:

The F-22 has a lifespan of 30 years or 8000 flight hours, whichever comes first.

Fortunately they haven't been burning down those flight hours lately. Sad

And that's before the possible SLEP c.2030-2040.

The big loss factor at the moment is those lousy pilots who insist on breathing instead of paying attention to flying the aircraft. (The USAF should like totally sue whatever organization it was who selected and trained those bozos.) So there might not be that many F-22s left to SLEP. Sad

Pity the USAF is against a FB-22 style next-gen bomber, but perhaps a twin-engine cross between the F-22 and F-35s could be built in the late 2020s, depending on how the 6th gen program goes.

southernphantom wrote:

The only Raptors over here are at Tyndall, which aren't on alert like the F-15s are. Homestead ARB has the 125th FW Det. 1 on NORAD support alert. IIRC, there aren't any Raptors on alert anywhere.

Where exactly did these Su-35s flying over Florida, fly out of? They would've run out of fuel long before reaching Florida, if they were Venezuelan. They would've likely been engaged by the USN long before any USAF/ANG alert fighters ever got scrambled.

southernphantom wrote:

The only Raptors over here are at Tyndall, which aren't on alert like the F-15s are. Homestead ARB has the 125th FW Det. 1 on NORAD support alert. IIRC, there aren't any Raptors on alert anywhere.

Looks like the Raptors out of Elmendorf must be on alert some of the time...

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogscript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Ad07dbc0a-1db1-426e-ae3f-84e2177c1b18[/url]

Code3 wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

The only Raptors over here are at Tyndall, which aren't on alert like the F-15s are. Homestead ARB has the 125th FW Det. 1 on NORAD support alert. IIRC, there aren't any Raptors on alert anywhere.

Looks like the Raptors out of Elmendorf must be on alert some of the time...

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogscript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Ad07dbc0a-1db1-426e-ae3f-84e2177c1b18[/url]

Some more:

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123246683

Quote:

On Thanksgiving Day, 2007, klaxon alarms in then Elmendorf Air Force Base's Combat Alert Center pierced the winter air, prompting pilots to hurriedly suit up and slide down the facility's fire pole, dashing down the ready line to their F-22 Raptor fighters.

Within minutes of the call, the F-22s were airborne en route to intercepting a Russian Air Force TU-95 Bear bomber just southeast of Nunivak Island, mere miles away from the Alaska mainland.

Quote:

Last month (since 2007), the CAC earned a "mission ready" rating when Air Force inspectors general visited the facility for a North American Aerospace Defense Command Alert Force Evaluation.

Quote:

Crew chiefs from 90th and 525th aircraft maintenance units were tested for how quickly they could safely launch alert aircraft, as well as how soon they could turn the returning aircraft around for future missions.

Finally, F-22 pilots were evaluated for how quickly, safely and accurately they intercepted the notional incursion aircraft.

Quote:

The CAC is home to a firehouse atmosphere with sleeping quarters, a weight room and recreational facilities for Airmen who work alert shifts. The F-22s rest in immaculate bays and are constantly checked and rechecked by maintenance personnel to ensure their readiness.

"We're here 24/7/365," Brown said with a grin. "Always ready."

Quote:

"We're part of history in two aspects: one, we're working in history and two - being the first F-22 alert force - we're making history, all in the same facility."

"The F-22s rest in immaculate bays and are constantly checked and rechecked by maintenance personnel to ensure their readiness. "

and

"In July 2009, the Air Force reported that the F-22 requires more than 30 hours of maintenance for every flight hour, with the total cost per flight hour of $44,000.[189] The Office of the Secretary of Defense puts that figure at 34 hours of maintenance per flight hour at a cost of $49,808."

Obviously have something in common.

hcobb wrote:

"The F-22s rest in immaculate bays and are constantly checked and rechecked by maintenance personnel to ensure their readiness. "

and

"In July 2009, the Air Force reported that the F-22 requires more than 30 hours of maintenance for every flight hour, with the total cost per flight hour of $44,000.[189] The Office of the Secretary of Defense puts that figure at 34 hours of maintenance per flight hour at a cost of $49,808."

Obviously have something in common.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-12877.html

Quote:

Assertion: F-22 maintenance man-hours per flying hour have increased, recently requiring more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour airborne.

Facts: The F-22 is required to achieve 12.0 direct maintenance man-hours per flight hour (DMMH/FH) at system maturity, which is defined to be when the F-22 fleet has accumulated 100,000 flight hours. In 2008 the F-22 achieved 18.1 DMMH/FH which then improved to 10.5 DMMH/FH in 2009. It's important to recognize this metric is to be met at system maturity, which is projected to occur in late 2010. So the F-22 is better than the requirement well before maturity.

Assertion: The airplane is proving very expensive to operate with a cost per flying hour far higher than for the warplane it replaces, the F-15.

Facts: USAF data shows that in 2008 the F-22 costs $44K per flying hour and the F-15 costs $30K per flying hour. But it is important to recognize the F-22 flight hour costs include base standup and other one-time costs associated with deploying a new weapon system. The F-15 is mature and does not have these same non-recurring costs. A more valid comparison is variable cost per flying hour, which for the F-22 in 2008 was $19K while for the F-15 was $17K.

It's amazing what you can find, if you don't stop looking, once you've found what you want to find.

wrightwing wrote:

hcobb wrote:

"The F-22s rest in immaculate bays and are constantly checked and rechecked by maintenance personnel to ensure their readiness. "

and

"In July 2009, the Air Force reported that the F-22 requires more than 30 hours of maintenance for every flight hour, with the total cost per flight hour of $44,000.[189] The Office of the Secretary of Defense puts that figure at 34 hours of maintenance per flight hour at a cost of $49,808."

Obviously have something in common.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-12877.html

Quote:

Assertion: F-22 maintenance man-hours per flying hour have increased, recently requiring more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour airborne.

Facts: The F-22 is required to achieve 12.0 direct maintenance man-hours per flight hour (DMMH/FH) at system maturity, which is defined to be when the F-22 fleet has accumulated 100,000 flight hours. In 2008 the F-22 achieved 18.1 DMMH/FH which then improved to 10.5 DMMH/FH in 2009. It's important to recognize this metric is to be met at system maturity, which is projected to occur in late 2010. So the F-22 is better than the requirement well before maturity.

Assertion: The airplane is proving very expensive to operate with a cost per flying hour far higher than for the warplane it replaces, the F-15.

Facts: USAF data shows that in 2008 the F-22 costs $44K per flying hour and the F-15 costs $30K per flying hour. But it is important to recognize the F-22 flight hour costs include base standup and other one-time costs associated with deploying a new weapon system. The F-15 is mature and does not have these same non-recurring costs. A more valid comparison is variable cost per flying hour, which for the F-22 in 2008 was $19K while for the F-15 was $17K.

It's amazing what you can find, if you don't stop looking, once you've found what you want to find.

Only 2k more. That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for the info.

TSFG

Well, I stand corrected on the Raptor, and am actually happy to be wrong.

As for the Su-35s, I was at least partially thinking some wonky Cuba scenario, but VZ Flanker-Es would go bingo before they even passed over Cuba. That was just an idly-suggested example of AESA fun, and not intended as a realistic possibility.

If the variable cost per flying hour for the raptor was $17K in 2008, does anyone know wherr we can find more recent cost figures? Is this type of information classified or would the GAO have access to them?

It would be very difficult to jam a good AESA radar. First, a low probability of intercept signal has to be intercepted. It has to be distinguished from the background radiation. After it is detected, processed etc. the signal then has to be sent back to the emitter. The problem is that by then, the frequency has already changed. The Raptor's radar changes frequencies 1000 times PER SECOND! Also, the Raptor has multiple send/receive modules working simultaneously at different frequencies. Finally, an AESA can operate on a very wide range of frequencies unlike most radars which have a narrow range.

So basically the jammer would have to detect multiple simultaneous LPI signals that change frequency 1000 times per second AND over a wide band and send them back. That's a pretty tall order. A good ECM suite would be able to detect that it's being scanned by a good AESA radar, but it wouldn't be able to jam it.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

AN/APG-77 vs DRFM jammer