Forum: Program and politics

geogen wrote:

A potentially interesting development just occurred. In the past couple hours the BoJ unilaterally intervened in weakening the Yen, whereby the govt has recently been suggesting a vital national security threat exists to the steadily increasing currency valuation. One main recent hesitancy for not doing this sooner has apparently been the implied objections by the Euro zone/ECB as it would not necessarily be in Europe's advantage for such a unilateral move.

However, over the weekend Japan has pledged to 'continue in support' of Europe's EFSF financial stability facility -- which when reading between the lines after an official visit by Big wig Euro reps to both PRC and Japan in seeking foreign support for stabilizing the crisis could mean that a deal was made for 'additional' support be it moral and/or financial. If so, it could be quite certain that a nod was given in kind to grant BoJ's unilateral intervention to stabilize said nation's currency and overall economic footing.

How to read anything into this with respect to fighter acquisition decisions is completely speculative, but still worth the thought nevertheless. Although it could be conjectured in that to better offset US's strategic alliance and relationship advantage vis-a-vis any potential F-35 purchase, Europe might have to offer a pretty substantial counter-offer in terms of overall strategic support for Japan as a nation state - beyond that which a jet could provide. I could be totally off on even attempting to connect any dots here, but it would be interesting to see in the coming weeks if some form of strategic shared rhetoric of mutual support is increased in this space. If the case, one could surmise even a notional boost for Euro zone+Self Defense Forces opportunities as part of an expanded win-win relationship.

Or they could just be trying to prop up the Euro and the Dollar because of the record highs the Yen has been reaching.

The Eurofighter is still out.

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hb_pencil wrote:

The Eurofighter is still out.

Wait until an official word is announced that it is before stating oneself, otherwise one might look a complete prat.

7 wrote:

hb_pencil wrote:

The Eurofighter is still out.

Wait until an official word is announced that it is before stating oneself, otherwise one might look a complete prat.

Like you've already done in your posts?

SpudmanWP wrote:

delvo wrote:

SpudmanWP wrote:

...only has a 10-20nm range advantage over the A

Why so little?

The 'Fast Facts' show only a 10nm advantage for the C. The extra fuel that it carries is offset by the higher drag from a larger wing and tail surfaces.

Does anybody here know the sources of this table and the one at Wikipedia's F-35 page? That one gives the same numbers as yours for versions A and B, but 320 km higher for C's "range" and 94 km higher for its "combat radius"... which apparently comes from 600 kg more fuel (internally), so 1.9 km of "range" and 6.4 km of "combat radius" added per kg of fuel added.

(And how can its top speed not be affected?)

As at 05 September 2011 attached is the LM 'Fast Facts' PDF which has the latest version AFAIK of that table above:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/asse ... tFacts.pdf

One thing to keep in mind is that LM is only publishing the KPP ranges for the F-35s, not what they are actually capable of.

Earlier testing and simulation has shown that it should be a bit higher than KPP.

7 wrote:

hb_pencil wrote:

The Eurofighter is still out.

Wait until an official word is announced that it is before stating oneself, otherwise one might look a complete prat.

Hey Spaz, does ^this^ qualify as "spiting the dummy"?

I can see 7 at his computer now>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY9Edm0N ... ideo_title LMAO

As for the topic at hand... if Japan is only looking to replace some old F-4s, why not keep it local/cheap and just purchase some KAI FA-50s? They should just wait until their F-15s are ready to retire before buying something as expensive as the EF-2000 or the F-35 (by which time Block 5 with the 6 AMRAAM configuration should be available).

I prefer 'Boxy' I'm not trollin' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjPrHv5x ... re=related but this chap is cranky is as cranky as...

I'm Not A Troll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZjCPXnKcM

Thought the Boxy vid was a little silly, but that ginger guy is going on my playlist. Beer

Seriously though, am I the only one who thinks it's a little early for Japan to be looking for new fighters?

1st503rdsgt wrote:

Thought the Boxy vid was a little silly, but that ginger guy is going on my playlist. Beer

Seriously though, am I the only one who thinks it's a little early for Japan to be looking for new fighters?

Well I guess so. They ARE looking to replace their F-4's afterall. Most other F-4 users have replaced theirs or will do so soon enough.

Their oldest F-4 was acquired in 1968. Probably time for something a bit newer...

Oops. What I meant to say is that it might be a little too soon to buy something as expensive as the F-35/EF-2000/SH. One can think of cheaper ways to replace the F-4.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

Oops. What I meant to say is that it might be a little too soon to buy something as expensive as the F-35/EF-2000/SH. One can think of cheaper ways to replace the F-4.

They could keep their F-2 line open for a start and build another 40-50, which would also be the quickest and easiest, but they aren't really happy with the F-2.

I'd suggest that whichever of the 3 fighters replaces the F-4 will also replace the F-2 in years to come.

I can see the Japanese operating a "hi-lo" force of upgraded F-15's and the new fighter with (a very big) "perhaps" an indigenous LO fighter to round out the force and keep local industry happy and involved in building fighters.

I'm not sure that budget is a great concern for the Japanese. This fighter is still some years away from entering service even if it's chosen within the next 3 weeks (which was the stated plan). The plan as I understand it is to begin retiring F-4 fighters and introducing new jets from 2015.

The big dollar expenditures will come some years away yet, even if they stick to their current program, which they may not.

Conan wrote:

they aren't really happy with the F-2.

I'd suggest that whichever of the 3 fighters replaces the F-4 will also replace the F-2 in years to come.

Happy with it or not, the F-2 is the newest thing they have; as such, it will probably be the last thing they replace (possibly with an indigenous design). A better idea would be to hold off purchasing a high-$ design until the F-15 is ready to retire. In the meantime, the F-4s could be replaced with something like the FA-50 (as I've already mentioned a few comments up).

In any case, this speculation doesn't really matter because Japan obviously wants the new hottness, regardless of the expense. After all, they were willing to pay for the F-22.

1st503rd,

I tend to concur with this view that Japan might be 'rushing' too quick into a high-end F-4 replacement Program. Not only Japan, but perhaps Korea too. It's not so much that a particular Air Force shouldn't be replacing F-4 with a much more modern replacement - note India replacing Mig-21 with either Rafale or Euro Fighter - but rather, the timing could indeed be better exploited cost-effectively... with various combinations of interim and creative stopgaps with a revised strategy to upgrade in a more sustainable, flexible and consolidated fashion within about 8-10 yrs.

Regarding the FA-50, or even TA-50... I've too supported that possible alternative stopgap as just one solution to fill certain interim requirements for a few Air Forces actually.

And to hb_pencil...

Yes, Japan would likely have it in their respective interests to see the Euro 'propped up' as you say. But any real mid-term effect on the dangerously high Yen's valuation would likely need to be secondarily coupled with some form of direct, decisive intervention too (eg, higher than 76 Yen to the dollar), such as the SNB did with the Franc.

To that end, Japan would likely need to cut deals on many levels in order to gain support and understanding for survival. Not to say that swatch watch isn't as important as say Toyota, but nonetheless, Japan needs a more normalized currency valuation ASAP... which for comparison sake, is nowhere the same as say, Beijing wanting to keep the Yuan down so as to maintain her cheap exports, etc.

And btw, it's news to me if Typhoon is now 'out'.

In the meantime, the SH will be getting some new electronics..

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s ... deftech.nl

ST. LOUIS, Nov. 10, 2011 – The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has received a $48 million contract from the U.S. Navy to collaboratively develop a new mission computer for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler.

The Type 4 Advanced Mission Computer (AMC) will replace the current Type 3 on the Super Hornet and Growler aircraft, both of which are manufactured by Boeing. The new hardware will increase aircraft performance, address obsolescence issues, and improve image- and mission-processing functions.

"This contract will allow Boeing to increase warfighting capabilities for both domestic and international customers," said Tom Mantia, AMC Type 4 program manager for Boeing.

Forum: Program and politics

F-35s for Japan