Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Quote:

"VprWzl"]Seriously?! All they have is a flying advertisement of an aircraft shape without production motors, avionics or systems.

As good as anyone will get.
Interview with Victor Chepkin. His first interview in 3 years.
General Designer, first deputy general director of NPO Saturn and advisor to the Director of Lulka design bureau. Doctor of technical sciences, Professor,
He was the chief designer of the improved engine - "D-30F6" for the Mig31 interceptor.
Victor spearheaded the development of the fifth generation AL 41F and modernization of the AL-31F.
For the first time he explains the difference between 'izdelie-117S' and 'izdelie-117' engines for new fighters.

Q What in your opinion is the most important developments in the Russian aviation industry during the last 3 years.

A - The main thing in my opinion, is that joint efforts have succeeded in stopping the demise of the industry. This required the efforts of many. On engines credit should go to Mikhail Pogosyan and Eugene Marchukov - the Designers of the engine for the T-50.

They have created two engines - one for aircraft like the Su-35 and the second for "T-50" type aircraft. The first - is the "117S" [25% more thrust than the AL31F]. This engine is simpler and designed for aircraft with conventional arms suspended on pylons - there are less constraints on engine dimensions on this type of plane - 4++ generation aircraft. [Assigned life of 4,000 hours and an MTBO of 1,000 hours.]

The second engine - is the "117" a much more advanced engine. This engine should not be confused with the "117S" even though its name only differs by 1 letter. A mistake many commentators make. This is a new engine of the 5-th generation.
From rivals we sometimes hear a 5-th generation engine should have such a blade, such and such materials, high-speed rotors etc. From my perspective there is only one goal - to increase the specific thrust - have good specific fuel consumption.
Specific thrust is the ratio of thrust to its weight. The 4 th generation engine "AL-31F achieves specific thrust of 8.7. The "117" 5 th generation achieves a specific thrust of about 10. They also have improved engine life.

This new engine can deliver supersonic speed without afterburner on the T50. If before a fighter was flying to a target at 700 km / h now it will be twice as fast.

The "117" today is already flying on the T-50 prototypes. For the company it is a major achievement - a large move forward.

Q - What are the challenges encountered when creating a 5 th generation plane?

A - There are thousands of problems to solve. Major one include reducing the radar visibility, internal weapons, smaller highly accurate weapons. The missiles themselves need to be stealthy. Such weapons are now being manufactured. All this affects the design of the engine. All this work is proceeding to plan. In my opinion the plane should turn out good - equal to the American "F-22" in most respects and better in some areas.

Q - If we compare the "T-50" with the" F-22 " Western sources say the "T-50" is much behind in infrared engine visibility in the rear.

A - We have been and are working on that very intensely - to reduce the infrared and radar visibility. Based on published data about the "F22 we have already achieved a result twice as good as the "F-22".
I can only base this on published data about the "F22".

Q - In the difficult years military aircraft survived by exports, especially in China and India. Today, the Chinese have copied our "Su-27"and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. As a result will we lose our traditional markets of combat aircraft?

A - We will not in the forseable future - the Chinese do not have the technology at present. They say that they are developing a 5-th generation plane - one can say anything ... Their best engine was copied from our "AL-31F" - not as good as the "117s".
We now have 5-th generation engines which in all parameters of thrust, specific fuel consumption etc. are true 5-th generation engines.
I will reveal a secret today - we actually have two 5-th generation engines. The second, which is called the "Type 30" - [the ultimate engine for the T50] has already been tested in flight on one of the "T-50's".
In the future it probably will be named "AL-....?". It has a 15-25 percent better thrust than the "117".

Q - Is the engine of a 5th generation plane as important as its electronics.

A - If you compare the share of the motor and electronics I must admit that electronics "weighs" in much higher today - without a doubt. That's why a little better, or slightly worse engine - has no special meaning.
But, if the engine parameters are much better, as we have done on the "117" (25 percent), the performance characteristics can be seriously improved.

Summary - The engines ready and under development.
Ready - 117s for SU-35 - Reported - 142-147 kN (32,000 lb) of thrust with afterburner
Ready - 117 for PAK-FA - [25 % better than AL-31F - 123 kN (27,600 lb) with afterburning] - Add 25% = 154kN to ??? (35,800lb)
Already test flown on the T50 and being developed - "Type 30" - (15 to 25% better than 117) - 177kN to ???

Comparison on Published Figures.
F119 - Reported - 35,000 lb (156 kN) (with afterburner)
F135 - Reported - 43,000 lbf (191.35 kN) max, 28,000 lbf (124.6 kN) intermediate

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So far, my statement still holds;
The T-50 flies, the F-22 is grounded.
There is no competition.
Allt he T-50 has to do to win is = Well, ha-ha-ha- => take off.

vilters wrote:

So far, my statement still holds;
The T-50 flies, the F-22 is grounded.
There is no competition.
Allt he T-50 has to do to win is = Well, ha-ha-ha- => take off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHl ... ideo_title

I'll take 160 temporarily grounded F-22s over 2 prototypes flying with stopgap engines any day.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

vilters wrote:

So far, my statement still holds;
The T-50 flies, the -22 is grounded.
There is no competition.
Allt he T-50 has to do to win is = Well, ha-ha-ha- => take off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHl ... ideo_title

I'll take 160 temporarily grounded F-22s over 2 prototypes flying with stopgap engines any day.

Exactly. Also considering the accident the T-50 had at MAKS 2011 KNAAPO has their own problems to worry about. Laughing

Heck, I'll take two dozen half tested F-35s. RAPTOR OR NOT. The Russ is sill 10+ year behind. F-22+F-35= In Love

So now that the grounding is over, can F-22 be a good plane again?

rkap wrote:

In my opinion the plane should turn out good - equal to the American "F-22" in most respects and better in some areas.

Any aviation designers/engineers willing to give commentary about this?

rkap wrote:

Q - If we compare the "T-50" with the" F-22 " Western sources say the "T-50" is much behind in infrared engine visibility in the rear.

A - We have been and are working on that very intensely - to reduce the infrared and radar visibility. Based on published data about the "F22 we have already achieved a result twice as good as the "F-22".
I can only base this on published data about the "F22".

Since when did they publish the infrared data for the F-22?

One thing people need to ask is what makes you think the Russian's even know how to fight stealth fighters. Raptors have been fighting Raptors for years. This will give F-35 pilots the chance to learn what they know and to learn what it is like to fight Raptor with another stealth fighter. The day the T-50 comes on line they will know little about using it in combat agenst other stealths. This will change yes, but they're years behind. We will have 10 to 15 or even 20 years advantage. That is if the T-50 is their equal. Russia can't play our game on our terms so they play a new game. They can't yet equal our stealth so they go for radars all over the plane. Well the down side of this is if the Raptors/F-35 play the sub vs sub games of the cold war(whoever make a sound first dies) with thier passive an/alq-94 the T-50 will be in trouble. The point of stealth is not to emit energy. I'm sure T-50 will have something like an/alq-94 but will it be as good?. Also I don't think we know more than about 50% of what these aircraft can really do. The facts that are still in the "black" make this all equal zip. TSFG

I did a bit of homework and i found out that the F-22 and the T-50 are almost neck to neck in a dogfight!!!!!!!!

well it is not personal but the Russians surely have a record of cheap aircraft spare parts so that gives the F-22A an edge.

airmaster11 wrote:

Hey guys, I was reading a media report saying the new Russian stealth fighter T-50 can defeat the F-22A. Can you guys clarify this.

"media Report" Nuff said. Can they confirm that statement. Not even 0.01% chance to prove that. The topic should be can the F-22 beat the 4x T-50s.

Quote:

I did a bit of homework and i found out that the F-22 and the T-50 are almost neck to neck in a dogfight!!!!!!!!

I will take this with a grain of salt as how can this possibly go neck to neck without full and proper testing. This isn't like the T-34 from WWII. It isn't just going to come out factory and go straight into dogfights.

airmaster11 wrote:

I did a bit of homework and i found out that the F-22 and the T-50 are almost neck to neck in a dogfight!!!!!!!!

I'd love to see the sources that you used, to arrive at this conclusion.

@ wrightwing
Laughing

Nice! Probably got it from Sukhoi's website! Seriously though, the Russians have done well IMO with keeping the Flankers competitive with Western fourth gen platforms (and some might say superior in many regards). This T-50, however, looks like a Flanker with some sort of disease. I think the Russians and Chinese are struggling to just keep up with us when it comes to fifth gen tech and the Raptor is the beast that haunts their nightmares. The thing I find most irritating is all of the publicly available information regarding stealth technology. Is it any wonder they've developed two "alleged," stealth fighters already?!?!? Heck, some independently wealthy American could have developed his own stealth fighter if it had suited him with all the information widely available on the web! Those countries used to have to get their intelligence the hard way...now we're all but giving it to them! I just pray that the stuff that IS classified is enough to retain the overwhelming advantage that we currently enjoy.

I also get a real kick out of those who tout these fighters as automatically, "superior," than Raptor and Lightning II when all they've been doing is TESTING the freaking things!!! PROVE IT T-50 and J-20!!! I'd bet a clean Viper has a smaller frontal RCS than either of these monstrosities! I'm sure we'll be seeing some Flanker like, "ballistic mananeuverability," soon out of the T-50 (beyond the MAKS 2011 "demo"), but that J-20 looks like it couldn't get out of its own way. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Russia's propaganda machine certainly hasn't gone anywhere with the collapse of the USSR, and the Chinese, well, they learned from the best.

Stepping off my soapbox now.... Wink

airmaster11 wrote:

I did a bit of homework and i found out that the F-22 and the T-50 are almost neck to neck in a dogfight!!!!!!!!

No you didn't. You pulled more BS out of your a$$.

About all we know about performance of the T-50 is that KNAAPO claims it sacrifices some stealth for superior kinematic performance to F-22. This is what the Russians said, so in actuality we know nothing about how the T-50 would fare in ACM against the Raptor.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Can F-22A defeat the russian T-50