Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Reopened.

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It's official now?
The entire F-22 fleet is grounded until further notice?

I wonder if they're taking this opportunity to replace all the LO coatings with the RAM from the F-35 program. They should while they have the chance.

The Block 60 F-16, which also has OBOGS, carries an EOS (Emergency Oxygen System) bottle in lieu of the little green apple. It is of much larger capacity for just this sort of thing.

Quote:

munny
I wonder if they're taking this opportunity to replace all the LO coatings with the RAM from the F-35 program. They should while they have the chance.

While that's not a bad idea in my book. I think they should nail down the O.B.O.G.S. problem first as others have theorized the current stealth treatments may (or may not) be part of the problem. Shocked

And while similar oxygen systems in the F-16, A-10, etc. work just fine. But I would like to see the F-22's upgraded (since at 181?) airframes, they're almost "national treasures" might as well treat them right.
But at the moment, find the problem (if they haven't already), FIX the problem, get the F-22's flying again should be the priority - just my Two Cents

!

I have a feeling that the OBOGs problems have already been addressed and they are doing some major upgrades to the F-22s. Hell, if we all had the opportunity to take a jet down this long, would we all agree to make it a better mousetrap?

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... &s=AIR
F-22 Deliveries Halt as Grounding Continues
By DAVE MAJUMDAR
Published: 8 Jul 2011 16:19

Deliveries of F-22 Raptors to the U.S. Air Force have been halted due to the continuing suspension of flight operations for the stealthy fifth-generation air superiority fighter.

A new F-22 Raptor sits at the Lockheed Martin production facility at Marietta, Ga., one of four that have technically been delivered to the U.S. Air Force but have yet to fly to their home base at Langley AFB, Va., because of a service-wide grounding (Lockheed Martin)

A new F-22 Raptor sits at the Lockheed Martin production facility at Marietta, Ga., one of four that have technically been delivered to the U.S. Air Force but have yet to fly to their home base at Langley AFB, Va., because of a service-wide grounding (Lockheed Martin)

Even though manufacturer Lockheed Martin continues to build the aircraft at its Marietta, Ga., factory, the company is unable to do required flight testing for each aircraft as it leaves final assembly. Nor can government test pilots from the Pentagon's Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) fly their acceptance flights for new aircraft as they are readied for delivery.

I think they update new system for F-22 :

The flight restriction applies to all F-22 crews, but test pilots at Edwards AFB, Calif., are operating under a flight waiver that allows them to fly certain test sorties. Air Force officials at Edwards could not immediately say what kind of test sorties those aircraft are flying.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... &s=AIR

Still grounded huh. I have a hard time believing that a problem with a common sub-system could keep the USAF's premier fighter out of service for so long by itself. Perhaps the powers in the Pentagon don't really care to see F-22s back in service. After all, Gates and his ilk made their bones in its cancellation, and the longer they can keep it grounded (or out of combat), the better their decisions look.

You'd like to think that the USAF isn't that political, after all the F-22 is a front line asset and it sort of the flag carrier for US engineering excellence.

Like I said earlier though, these things can be tricky. They may have worked out what's going wrong by now but are having a problem finding a fix for it ie they have a fix but it takes up three times as much space in the aircraft as the old one did. That sort of thing.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

Still grounded huh. I have a hard time believing that a problem with a common sub-system could keep the USAF's premier fighter out of service for so long by itself. Perhaps the powers in the Pentagon don't really care to see F-22s back in service. After all, Gates and his ilk made their bones in its cancellation, and the longer they can keep it grounded (or out of combat), the better their decisions look.

I do believe you could well be onto something here. The whole thing is starting to seem really rather fishy when you look at the length of time this is taking. Afterall you'd think the USAF and the F-22 system providers would have sorted this out by now, but, as Jeff pointed out these things can be tricky to fix.

It must be highly embarrassing for the USAF.

I think the bigger issue here is that this is costly to the Guard pilots who can't get their AFTP pay.

I routinely see / hear the F-22s flying outside of my office window. For a population of people that is so used to jet noise, it's been eerily quiet. I don't hear any of the other jets from Langley flying either. Why wouldn't the T-38s not have flight paths similar to the 22s?

Last edited by aaam on Jul 14, 2011 - 10:12 PM; edited 1 time in total

1st503rdsgt wrote:

Still grounded huh. I have a hard time believing that a problem with a common sub-system could keep the USAF's premier fighter out of service for so long by itself. Perhaps the powers in the Pentagon don't really care to see F-22s back in service. After all, Gates and his ilk made their bones in its cancellation, and the longer they can keep it grounded (or out of combat), the better their decisions look.

I think too much is being read into it here. The reason the F-22 hasn't been in combat is that there hasn't been any situation yet (including Libya) where there was enough need for its unique abilities to justify the cost of establishing an operational deployment in a new location. Gates and the Administration have already won their battle; there's no political advantage to keeping the a/c grounded. Now, given all the existing and coming cutbacks, AF may be thinking that while they're grounded they can save some money, but that's about it.

It may just be that something so unexpected as this means there's nothing in the pipeline yet to replace what's causing problems. Don't forget that the F-22, like the F-35. is a very integrated and wired system. You gain a lot that way, but it also means that any significant change to it or a subsystem has to be thought out a lot more and takes a lot longer. Right now, there isn't any time-critical need for what the F-22 can do, so while it's very important to get them back, it's not a drop everything priority. However, go out about five years when there are significantly fewer F-15s. USAF would be moving Heaven and Earth to get them back.

Last edited by aaam on Jul 14, 2011 - 10:10 PM; edited 2 times in total

munny wrote:

I wonder if they're taking this opportunity to replace all the LO coatings with the RAM from the F-35 program. They should while they have the chance.

Well, the RAM on the F-35 hasn't been fully tested yet, so it may be premature to make that move. Also, that is a substantial change which could keep the each plane down for a significant period of time while it's being done. I would think USAF would want to do that on a planned, scheduled basis so as not to adversely affect fleet operations too much. That's the same reason USMC is taking so long to convert their Whiskey Cobras into the far more capable Zulus.

Then, of course there's the money to do it. The way Washington is now, a lot of the attempt to reduce the deficit is going to come out of the hide of Defense.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

OBOGS problems affecting F-22 and other jets