Forum: General F-16 forum

Did a double take when I saw this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rear-Stabilizer-downed-F-16-Falcon-/170517970418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b3a9bdf2#ht_500wt_1129[/url]

F-16.net Sponsor

Quote:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 641 provides in part that “Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any thing of value of the United States or of any agency thereof, or any property made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; but if the value of such property does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.” Title 18 U.S.C. § 3571 authorizes fines for felonies of not more than $250,000 and fines for misdemeanors of the type in § 641 of not more than $100,000.

Hope this person has a letter from the USAF saying he can have this part.... otherwise they could be going to jail.

Slap

TEG

Point taken, but at what point (if any) does the Gubment relinquish or abandon ownership of a destroyed piece of property? In this case, a Viper? It's obviously been out there a while and if they really wanted the thing back wouldn't they have made sure they got it? I mean...there's a pic in the gallery of the vertical stab from 79-0343 that is supposedly still at the crash site. Do the taxpayers sill own it or was it abandoned in place?

http://www.f-16.net/gallery_item91971.html

The USN/USCG never gives up...

USN wrote:

Department of the Navy ship and aircraft wrecks are government property in the custody of the U.S. Navy. These seemingly abandoned properties remain government-owned until the Navy takes specific formal action to dispose of them.

The USAF has 'given up' on aircraft lost prior to 1961.

USAF wrote:

9.10. Downed Aircraft. Aircraft that crashed before 19 November 1961, when a fire destroyed the pertinent Air Force records, and that remain wholly or partially unrecovered, are considered formally abandoned. The Air Force neither maintains title to, nor has property interest in, these aircraft. The authority for access to, and recovery of, these aircraft, as well as liability for damages associated with their recovery, are matters to be resolved between persons seeking recovery and landowners of the wreckage sites.

9.10.1. If any human remains are discovered at the site, recovery personnel should immediately contact the nearest United States Embassy or United States military installation. To assist in proper identification of remains, recovery personnel should refrain from further operations at the site pending removal of the remains by United States experts.

Otherwise USAF aircraft must be 'formerly abandoned' after an accident.

Quote:

AIRCRAFT, DRONE, AND UNMANNED AEROSPACE SYSTEMS (UAS)
INVENTORY, STATUS, AND UTILIZATION REPORTING

2.33.2. For crash-damaged aircraft: The possessing unit AVDO initiates and sends a termination message without waiting for mishap investigation board findings after the Maintenance Group Commander, or equivalent, with System Program Director coordination determines the aircraft is completely beyond repair. If the decision is beyond the Group Commander's capability, submit an AFTO Form 92, IAW TO 1-1-638, Repair and Disposal of Aerospace Vehicles, to the System Program Director for engineering determination. The unit AVDO terminates possession upon receipt of determination via message. The possessing unit AVDO terminates possession, citing the Group Commander's decision with SPD coordination or the SPD's engineering determination message and reports using Aerospace Equipment Termination Report, along with MIS input. Note: Prior to terminating an aerospace vehicle from the MIS, archive all records.

2.33.2.1. Report abandoned aircraft wreckage to the nearest Defense property Disposal Office for sale or formal abandonment.

So my

on this person's eBay sale is this
1. If the the Viper in question hasn't been "formally abandoned" that hunk of stab still belongs to Uncle Sam.
2. If the Viper in question has been "formally abandoned" and sold as "scrap" the company who purchased the remains of 79-0343 may have rights to this hunk of stab.

I wouldn't think you should be trying to sell USAF/Government equipment (Damaged/Crashed/Otherwise) unless you possessed a bill of sale, or letter saying that the material 'belonged to you'.... ...Unless you wanted to talk to the nice people from USAF OSI or the FBI.

Cheers

TEG

I agree that legally this person would require permission to sell this part, I'd be surprised if they were prosecuted however. A small piece of a blown tire from an F-16 would surely fall under the same law, but again I'd be surprised if someone was chased up for this. I guess it depends on the nature of the part being sold as to whether the government is prepared to take action.

I tried to ask him about the legality of trying to sell this part, and here is his very mature reply (caution, some juvenille gutter talk ahead):

Since your the last eBay troll to send me an email in the last two days, although I have had this listed for alms year now, I take it that while you guys where circle jerking each other you came across my listing and completely took it upon yourself to SET THINGS straight. Because you don't ask any question you completely assume that you are completely right,
Just so that you dip s**ts know, I found this part, I emailed the base, I went to the base, I spoke to the guard, to the mechanics, and to MPs on and of the base, guess what genius, nobody cared, it was a non issue, they all heard my story with some interest and told me, it's not a problem since I found it floatting away from where the plane crashes there was no way to say that this part WAS from that plane. That it probably was but since this part has not I'd on it there is no way to tell.
But yet I decided to removed to the listing because people like you and your kind, those that don't have a freaking life, won't stop. So I will just sell it to somebody locally and don't a dumbass such as your self and your little click. F, O.

As you can tell, a real Einstein among us...sheesh.

So why didn't he just answer the questions on the eBay posting? or be semi-polite about it here?

I was just basing my questions off past USAF experience, USN legal action over aircraft wrecks, and how NASA actually prosecuted people after the Columbia incident.

Even if someone is selling 'scrap parts' or tooling online that was formerly US Gov equipment; they better have a bill-of-sale, or receipt of some kind...

Shrug

TEG

I sent him a message too, he must have blown a gasket when more than one person asked him if he had USG/USAF permission to sell this item.

LOL!

Forum: General F-16 forum

F-16 Rear Stabilizer For Sale on eBay?