Forum: Air Power

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Well I didn't mean parking as in dropping the anchor but you get the idea i'm sure and if 20k is to close how about 40 or 50k. Cobras seem ideal for the job to me, they were very very effective in Iraq so I don't see why they wouldn't work well.

Here's other reasons why I wouldn't choose the Cobra.

- can replace ammo magazine with combination fuel/ammo pack allowing 300 rds total ammo with an additional 1 hr of endurance
- can replace ammo magazine with fuel tank (all fuel, no ammo) and still have about 90 rds in the feed chutes with 1+ hr endurance added
- can mount full sized auxiliary fuel tanks for extra range (with full int/ext aux. fuel the Apache can self deploy over 1200nm)
- 30mm cannon is harder hitting and has greater range than 20mm cannon of Cobra
- Pilots have DEDICATED FLIR turret (called PNVS) for night flying in addition to NVGs allowing for better navigation in low light conditions.
- Apache has the ability to use the Longbow FCR (APG-7 Cool

and RFI (APR-4 Cool

in addition to RF Hellfire missiles for true fire and forget capability
- Apache has wheels, allowing for rolling take offs allowing for transitional lift at take off which, in turn, allows for a greater load to be carried and less fuel to be burned at take off. Would work very well on an assault carrier.
- Apache has a more advanced communications suite (UHF (w/ crypto), VHF, VHF/FM SINGARS x 2, HF (w/ crypto), SATCOM, IDM, FBCB2/Blue Force Tracker, and text messaging (no joke))

I'd have to say the Apache was WAY more effective in Iraq (DS/OIF) than the Cobra. That's why you see the Cobra being upgraded with features the Apache had to begin with. My unit went out to Yuma, AZ to train with Marines. We let Cobra pilots ride in the front seat of our Apaches on missions. A typical Apache mission can be from 5 to 8 hours. USMC Cobra pilots do extremely short missions that are 1 to 2 hrs; those Marine pilots did an awful lot of complaining. The Cobra sometimes acts more in a QRF role rather than being on station like the Apache. I think the only thing the Cobra has over the Apache is raw performance based (minus range). Right now the Cobra is about 25kts faster and has better single engine performance. Once the Block III Apache comes online with new drive train, and all composite blades, the D model Apache will have more parity.

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Would not 20nm be adequate as the horizon would visibly shield the carrier and the Libyans have no way to employ a FO at sea?

And it would shield the carrier from ground based maritime surveillance radars. I'm still worried that Libya could get their hands on some anti-ship missiles. All I can think of is someone like North Korea, Iran, or China flying in supposed humanitarian aid and it actually being something more like Silkworm missiles.

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Disco, good posts, thanks for your perspective.

With regards to your legit concerns about potentially 'imported' anti-ship cm... maybe it's one reason NATO has itself assumed the 'embargo' umbrella role as of late, to show a unified resolve in countering the sneaky (clandestine) crap - which is surely going to be conducted by certain 'dealers' - the longer the UN enforcement is necessary to be conducted? imho.

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this conflict seems to be doing things by halves then maybe thats the answer, lack of motivation, in other words they can't be bothered.

I kind of get the same vibe from this myself. I wonder how political this "operation" is. If Obama states clearly defined goals for this mission in Libya and they aren't accomplished that could hurt his political career. This is a guy who voted "present" a whole lot, apparently to avoid accountability for his actions.

Forum: Air Power

US Naval Airpower for no-fly zone over Libya