Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

bandit66 wrote:

Obama just announced that the US wont send any fighters for the no fly zone.............

Well, for the moment. I kind of doubt that's going to last that long, especially if many airstrikes are involved.

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Prinz_Eugn wrote:

bandit66 wrote:

Obama just announced that the US wont send any fighters for the no fly zone.............

Well, for the moment. I kind of doubt that's going to last that long, especially if many airstrikes are involved.

Yet the question remains. What's the point? This can't be fixed from the air. Not even with F-22s...

-DA

Decisive and credible mobilization of international air power including the superior F-22 multi-mission capability - in concert with dedicated European leadership willingness, Arab League support and final UN authorization - has apparently forced a very swift change in the game and looks to have stopped the conflict by threat of force alone.

Very impressive indeed. Near Textbook implementation imho, regardless of how anyone might have wished regional players, the US, Arab League or UN to have acted more decisively earlier in the conflict. Hopefully there will be no need now for offensive operations, perhaps only peaceful verification flights.

God speed to aircrews involved and respects to the new cooperative-regional leadership dynamic.

Peace and reconciliation to Libya - much work ahead as they rebuild their nation and begin to work out their future.

The only decisive event here is that Air Power is insufficient to make a difference toward the stated objective. here's what's happened. In the early days of the conflict the While the UN debated, Gaddafi siezed the initiative and advantage. Libyan Infantry, Tanks, Artillery, logistics and C3 made the real difference. Stalling and indecision whether intentional or not has AT LEAST evened the odds of Gaddafi's remaining in power. Allied Air Forces may attempt some form of symbolic action but it has been out flanked by Gaddafi's ceasefire announcement at least for enough time for him to consolidate gains and make preparations against air attack. It's going to be really hard for EU air forces to justify the appropriate amount of offensive action needed to the public now.

In light of this I seriously doubt we will see F-22s in combat here and even if we did it would hardly matter. If we wanted it to matter we would send in the AH-1s, AV-8B and F/A-18s. We also wouldn't say "no ground troops". Because that's what it would take. And that would cause civilian casualties. Counter to the stated objective.

-DA

So yes, the authorized enforcement mission being prepared by willing and able Air power participants (yes, probably including F-22 in support, as needed) will bring Gaddafi's air attacks one way or another to an end (hopefully by threat of force alone) and in kind greatly influence a political solution to the combat and ground offenses. Whether they will see AH-1 and harriers involved in this show of force (or actual action if needed) is therefore unknown and probably irrelevant, this type of 'multi-role' enforcement mission is designed mostly for Air power beyond the diplomacy.

geogen wrote:

Decisive and credible mobilization of international air power including the superior F-22 multi-mission capability - in concert with dedicated European leadership willingness, Arab League support and final UN authorization - has apparently forced a very swift change in the game and looks to have stopped the conflict by threat of force alone.

Haha, where do you get your information from? That's almost delusional. Gaddafi's forces are still on the offensive, there are even tanks inside Benghazi right now!

The international community acted too late, hope is diminishing hour by hour.

Anyway, is there any news on the F-22 deployment or is the no-fighters policy still in effect for us?

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

Anyway, is there any news on the F-22 deployment or is the no-fighters policy still in effect for us?

Right now there are six operational F-22 squadrons ... not counting three that are converting and another two that are standing up... and by the way if you are thinking what six squadrons??? then your counting planes not pilots!

To those that are trying to stay on topic since my last warning, thanks. Because of them is the reason why I didn't lock this thread. Instead, I cleaned up this thread from my last post and deleted all off-topic posts or comments. You can bet I will continue to do so too.

So for those that want to talk about the situation in Libya, then start a topic over at the "Air Power" forum where you can talk about it and whatever airpower you think is needed there and doctrine. As a matter of fact, there is a topic already started there.

For those that want to talk about the F-22 in that AOR and/or their possible use, post here.

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

For those that want to talk about the F-22 in that AOR and/or their possible use, post here.

Thanks Scorpion1alpha

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

is the no-fighters policy still in effect for us?

Strange that, the 48th FW deployed 2 days ago!

Andy

boff180 wrote:

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

is the no-fighters policy still in effect for us?

Strange that, the 48th FW deployed 2 days ago!

Andy

Why is that strange?

Here's an article from the local paper for Langley AFB about the F-22's role in the NFZ.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/military ... 8974.story

Limitations Keep Raptor on Sidelines in Libya Campaign
By DAVE MAJUMDAR
Published: 22 Mar 2011 17:36

One aircraft conspicuous by its absence over the skies of Libya is the U.S. Air Force's vaunted F-22 Raptor air dominance fighter. The Lockheed Martin-built jet was likely benched due to its inability to communicate with other coalition aircraft and its limited ability to hit ground targets, analysts said.

BECAUSE THE F-22 can currently only use two 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions against fixed targets, it is not as valuable as the F-15 when it comes to air-to-ground capability. (U.S. Air Force)
"The designers of the F-22 had a dilemma, which is whether to have the connectivity that would allow versatility or to have the radio silence that would facilitate stealthiness. What they opted for was a limited set of tactical data links," said Loren Thompson, an analyst and chief operating office at the Lexington Institute, Arlington Va.

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The F-22 can only connect with other F-22s via an intraflight data link, and can only receive, but not transmit, over the standard Link-16 data link found on most allied aircraft.

Radio emissions from various data links could potentially give away the aircraft's position, Thompson said.

As such, while the Raptor is the stealthiest operational aircraft in the world, it lacks much of the connectivity found on other warplanes, he said.

The aircraft also lacks a significant air-to-surface punch. Currently, the F-22 can only use two 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions, which are GPS-guided bombs, against fixed targets. It does not yet have the ability to carry the 250-pound Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) or to create synthetic aperture radar maps, which are black and white photo-quality images of the Earth's surface, needed to select its own ground targets. By contrast, an F-15E Strike Eagle can carry 24,000 pounds of ordnance.

Those capabilities will be available once the Increment 3.1 hardware and software upgrade is fielded into the operational Raptor fleet later this year. However, even with Increment 3.1 installed, the F-22 will only be able to designate two targets in total for the eight SDBs it would be able to carry. The operational test force has been putting Increment 3.1 through its paces at Nellis AFB, Nev., since November.

However, the addition of Increment 3.1 will not resolve the Raptor's basic inability to connect with other aircraft, nor has the Air Force articulated a clear plan for the F-22 to do so. A future upgrade called Increment 3.2 was to have included the Multifunction Advanced Data-link (MADL) found on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, however, the Air Force deleted funding for that data link last year.

The MADL is also planned for integration into the B-2, which would have enabled the entire Air Force stealth aircraft fleet to be connected during operations inside hostile airspace.

Further, it is only with the addition of Increment 3.2 that the Raptor would be able to independently retarget eight SDBs at eight separate targets.

Under the Air Force's global strike task force doctrine, the Raptor would normally escort B-2 Spirit stealth bombers in "kicking down the door" of an enemy's air defenses. However, U.S. Africa Command, which is running Operation Odyssey Dawn, confirmed the F-22 has not flown over Libya.

"I see no indication that F-22s were used as an escort for the B-2 nor do I see anything that indicates the Raptor will be used in future missions over Libya," said Air Force Maj. Eric Hilliard, a spokesman for Africa Command.

On March 20, three B-2s flew bombing runs out of their base at Whiteman Air Force Base (AFB), Mo., against targets in Libya.

Analysts concurred that part of the reason for the absence of the Raptor is that it was not needed to defeat Libya's relatively pedestrian air defenses. The Libyans have a largely obsolete fleet of aircraft and only older model Soviet surface-to-air weaponry.

"Frankly, they might not be needed. Libya's defenses were not that robust to begin with and were rolled back quite handily," said Mark Gunzinger, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Analysis, Washington.

"Libya is not generally considered a highly capable adversary," Thompson added.

Gunzinger said that the B-2s probably flew at night, which would eliminate any chance of the billion-dollar warplane being spotted visually by the enemy. The large subsonic aircraft could be potentially vulnerable if it was seen, which is why it would be escorted by high performance stealth fighters like the F-22 if it was flying against a more challenging foe such as Iran or North Korea, Thompson said.

Doh

Another missed opportunity. This may further prove my theory that the USAF gave up on the F-22 as anything more than a recruitment gimmick in order to better secure its megaorder of F-35s and have more fighter seats for its officer corp.

nope...

apparently, the scheme of the mission's share in the Oddisey dawn ops is:

Strike: France, USA and other partners (Spain, Denmark...)

SEAD: Italy, USA

CAP: UK, France

QRA: Italy, UK

So no need of F-15C or F-22 to the USAFE to boost the no-fly zone

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Raptors for the No-Fly Zone?