Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

An episode of History's "Dogfights" series portrays a possible scenario of a future dogfight between F-22s and a fleet of SU-27s. A bit far-fetched, but still entertaining. The episode has commentary from test pilot Jon Beesley and Raptor pilot Maj. Paul Moga.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KpjgHYjcA4

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There's a thread around here somewhere from when that show first aired on the History Channel. The show and the resulting thread were both interesting...

The Future Dogfights thread is http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10532&highlight=

Darnnit. It seems as if i'm late to everything.

t3h_pr3t3nd3r wrote:

Darnnit. It seems as if i'm late to everything.

Don't feel bad! With a long established Forum such as this that has 11,191 members and counting as we type, somebody ALWAYS can beat you to the punch!

Just look around the different subjects/threads and reference sections, it's like having access to a warehouse sized library! Cool

I got angry and turned off the program when the F-22s need the assistance of the B-1 Lancer. To me that is like a B-17 helping out or saving a P-51 Mustang!

You mean the B-1R? A couple of F-35s could carry more AAMs (14 AMRAAMs each) than the B-1R and cost a lot less. If you used the same quad AAM launcher on the F-35 that you wanted on the B-1R, then the F-35 could carry the same number of AAMs as the B-1R.

SpudmanWP wrote:

You mean the B-1R? A couple of F-35s could carry more AAMs (14 AMRAAMs each) than the B-1R and cost a lot less. If you used the same quad AAM launcher on the F-35 that you wanted on the B-1R, then the F-35 could carry the same number of AAMs as the B-1R.

Who is going to have a better range and get to the action faster? Who is going to have more energy and angels to give the slammers more range?

There are several reasons why the F-35 is a better choice.

1. The F-35 is going to be far cheaper. This will allow it to be anywhere it is needed, not just in a few locations.

2. The F-35 will present a far smaller RCS target thereby giving the AAM much more endgame energy and range because it can get closer before launching.

3. Better situational awareness. With multiple radars fully networked together (both F-22 and F-35), a better picture of the battlefield can be maintained.

4. The F-35 can use it's EOTS to verify and classify targets.

5. The F-35 can drop the wing pylons after the wing AAMs are launched and still be in the fight, at full VLO, and still have 6 AAMs internal.

6. The F-35's ESM system (with active jamming from the APG-81) enhance the overall package survivability.

7. When the NGJ comes online it can further enhance the package survivability.

8. The F-35 has a more flexible basing option.

Fair points. Dropping the outers and merging if a plus too (depending on who is looking at it). I wonder who would have the range advantage though. 8+ internal AAM for the Raptor vs 4(?) in an F-35 vs a powerful and highly fueled B1R.
I guess one could say the Raptor could have limited legs too but in a deep inland fighter sweep what do you think would fare better? An F-35 with fuel bags?

Maybe you can change the script a bit and instead of a mythical B-1R, you have Gates' superstealthy New Manned/Unmanned Bomber in missile-sled mode.. this would be a far more effective approach.. imagine you're the enemy squadron leader and all your instruments indicate clear skies.. all of a sudden dozens of incoming AMRAAMs appear from out of nowhere to spoil your day..

the b-1 cant get high. They are always struggling up at altitude. Plus if it takes you 30 miles to turn around well.........you might just get shot.

Someone has been reading Dale Brown Wink

@Spudman,
apart from the fact that the B-1R doesn't exist who says it couldn't be fitted with such gizomos as found on the F-35, let alone a much more powerful radar, EWS etc. The aircraft certainly has a lot of room for retrofitting/integrating such stuff. And why should the B-1R be able to carry weapons internally?

The B-1R's survivability depends on it's turning tail and running as soon as the missiles are away. The F-35 can stay in the fight and bring all it's gizmos to bare throughout the entire fight.

The B-1R suffers from the "all your eggs in one basket" problem. For the cost of a single B-1R you could have at least 4 F-35As.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Dogfights of the future