Forum: General F-16 forum

The IAF shut down Syrian radar and SAMs with computer virus?

Interesting stuff...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/techn ... virus.html

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The Wild weasel mission isn't a thing of the past. Is it evolving? Yes, most definetly. Todays SEAD/DEAD mission is alive and well becuase we there is still the potential symmetric warfare environment. Look to the latest headlines where a symetric warefare envirnonment might be fought. There are places like country x and y where a nations ability to hack into thier defense network might be limited. Is the F-16 the only asset that can conduct a SEAD/DEAD mission (I know the F/A-18 and Tornado also accomplish the same mission)? No definetly not, the F-22 (and later on this decade the F-35) is an asset that could be utilized to make holes into an air defense network. Lets not forget the emerging UAV picture that when armed could and will take over this area. When a country decides it needs to defeat another countrys air defense network it will be multifaceted in nature.

Computer viruses are cool for a one time good deal, cool it worked, but there will be defenses against that put up ASAP by the bad guys.

Saying anything is a thing of the past gets me wondering. Okay, not many SAM threats currently...should we do away with Wild Weasels? Not many air threats at all, should we send all of the F-16s to the boneyard?

It all reminds me of the brand new air superiority fighter of the 60s...the F-4 Phantom. We don't need a gun on the F-4 because it can carry many A2A missles with the AIM-7s and AIM-9s. Close in dogfighting of the Korean War and WWII are a thing of the past... Unfortunately close in dog fights the AIM-7s needed a lot more range and the AIM-9s were too close to lock on....leaving the F-4 helpless at first. Add a gun pod and later a gun mod (F-4E) and we were livin' large again.

I get nervous when the "experts" talk about things of the past. Wink

They don't say "First In, Last Out" dor nothing. Wink

Definitely still necessary, as you have to start somewhere in an attack on enemy defenses. Have to begin removing the building blocks first to allow the strike packages to bring the whole network down. The Weasel/Iron Hand missions will always be needed in some capacity, count on it!

Right before Operation Desert Storm some 20 years ago... the US intercepted a printer going to one of Iraqi Air Defense HQs and planted a virus into it .... so this was nothing new...

"First in, Last out" = 480th FS Warhawks. If you believe/posit that 'SEAD is dead', you have answered the question, "do you have any idea what you're talking about," in the negative.

...and Weasel Keeper...not many SAM threats lately? I applaud the bravado, but do yourself a favor and google SA-10, 12, 20, 21, 22, etc.

PITFU, I think youre a little out to lunch on this one. F16 SEAD/DEAD is dead given the double digit SAMs that live out there and the latest array of weaponry thats out there. If we think we can send a four ship of F16s through a modern day SAM system, youre fooling yourself. As for DEAD there are so many other things out there that can probably do it better than an aging aircraft system from the 80s and 90s. What makes you qualified over Weasel Keeper because that dude sounds pretty smart to me!

Forum Veteran Joined: Jul 01, 2007 - 07:22 PM Posts: 620

Weasel Keeper-"I get nervous when the "experts" talk about things of the past."

pitfu-"If you believe/posit that 'SEAD is dead', you have answered the question, "do you have any idea what you're talking about," in the negative."

Liteningiiluvr-They are both saying the same thing but in different ways. Weasel is just saying it with a touch more sarcasm which can be lost in translation sometimes when body language and tone can't be seen or heard. As for your first post on your first day in the forum, I suggest that you establish your credibility some before you call someone else "out to lunch." As Weasels, we live and breathe this stuff every day. There are no weapon systems out there that can do the job we do with the efficiency and lethality we do. As new fighter pilots, we are taught that we know the square root of F***-All for the first year. A piece of advice we give to all our new wingmen, is to keep your eyes and ears open, your mouth shut and just ask questions from the more experienced guys. I suggest you do the same.

Salute!

I go with Snake-H and others.

SEAD is and shall be alive and well as far as we can see into the future.

- We shall not always face an adversary whose primary air defense is the eyeball and a MANPAD.

- We shall not always face an adversary that had what looked like a decent air defense system and the missiles/guns to go along with it. You can guess who I am talking about.

- We shall have to allocate resources amongst the human-piloted aircraft and the unmanned ones. As we discussed with CSAR and CAS discussions on other threads, there are times and situations requiring prompt and effective reaction to defeat or minimize the threat to other forces. Thus far, the drones haven't been able to do this, not or they projected to have such capabilities for the foreseeable future.

I can see the use of the drones for some of the initial strikes versus a well-equipped, well-trained enema. You can't hide all the SAM sites.

- Lastly, as Snake_H and others point out, we cannot afford to place all of our forces at the mercy of new technology or based upon two major "exercises" we have seen between 1991 and 2003.

I personally want to use all available technology to get the mission accomplished. However, I don't want us to sacrifice "plan B", in case all the new stuff has unforeseen problems in the real world.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Gums sends....

liteningiiluvr wrote:

What makes you qualified over Weasel Keeper because that dude sounds pretty smart to me!

I am a Block 50 4-ship flight lead, and SEAD/DEAD is my primary mission. Questions?

liteningiiluvr wrote:

PITFU, I think youre a little out to lunch on this one. F16 SEAD/DEAD is dead given the double digit SAMs that live out there and the latest array of weaponry thats out there. If we think we can send a four ship of F16s through a modern day SAM system, youre fooling yourself. As for DEAD there are so many other things out there that can probably do it better than an aging aircraft system from the 80s and 90s. What makes you qualified over Weasel Keeper because that dude sounds pretty smart to me!

The thing that gets me the most is the "aging" aircraft system. Theres a big difference between the aircraft system and the weapons systems that are on it. Some people think that an F-16 is just that an F-16. People need to look in terms of weapons capability and upgrade software as well as the next generation AGMs that are now in full development to counter the double digit SAM systems.

Bear in mind that the USAF/USN and some allied forces have fought since the Vietnam War against SAMs/Radars. Tactics change and probably somethings out that we havent heard of. However the F-16CJ along with the EA-18G/EA-6B are still very lethal "weapons systems" and combat proven.

The PAC-3 Patriot SAM system which is comparable and in some areas exceed the SA systems showed their capability unfortunately through friendly fire incidenetns during the initial Shock and Awe campaign against Iraq -GR4 and F/A-18C were destroyed while an F-16CJ managed to take out the PAC-3 because it was flying SEAD.

Another thing that was mentioned in some defense articles is that with the LINK system in the "aging" F-16CJ, an F-16CJ can act as a "Hunter" flying with AGM equipped Reapers - a new variation of the Hunter Killer.

Dudes, wild weasels will never die because as a msn commander i want a sead cap posted to help the strikers every time. If a sam bubba knows that if he turns on his radar he is going to hear magnum in 69 seconds, he may think twice...its the looming threat of destruction that makes it so succesful. just knowing there are harms out there with guys who are damn good at shooting them may effect SAM ones game plan. think about it.

By the way, do you even know what PITFU stands for? if not you should choke yourself and STFU about things you have zero SA about.

Quote:

PITFU, I think youre a little out to lunch on this one. F16 SEAD/DEAD is dead given the double digit SAMs that live out there and the latest array of weaponry thats out there. If we think we can send a four ship of F16s through a modern day SAM system, youre fooling yourself. As for DEAD there are so many other things out there that can probably do it better than an aging aircraft system from the 80s and 90s. What makes you qualified over Weasel Keeper because that dude sounds pretty smart to me!

Have you paid any attention to the modern multi-spectrum sensors and broadband data links that are being put in the newest generation of aircraft like the F-22 and F-35? They basically have SEAD/DEAD capability right out of the factory and it's for a reason!! From an Army perspective, if you can't suppress the enemy's air defenses you have robbed yourself of airborne operations (dropping in paratroopers) and air assault operations (by helicopters). It's so important that a 3rd of the Army's Apaches are equipped for the SEAD/DEAD missions (with FCR/RFI).

Just a word on "aging aircraft systems"...

How old was the F-4G when they got the job done during the first Bagdad Air Show?

If I am not mistaken, that is when the F-16 was modified and upgraded for the same task. We all know how the F-16 keeps evolving to this day. That being said, I'm sure the Weasels of today can still get the job done until the F-35A steps up to the task in the very near future.

Then again, what do I know- I like the Russian stuff we use for target practice! Shrug

Time for me to leave and have a drink with TEG... Cheers

Forum: General F-16 forum

Wild Weasels a thing of the past?