Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Pilotasso wrote:

Dont know why people get so stirred up whenever marketing mentioning the Eurofighter comes up.

Like the marketing machine never lies on either side of the pond...REALLY. Very Happy

The Typhoon is a fine airplane, and the folks at Eurofighter have a lot of areas where they could claim an actual advantage over many of the aircraft that they are competing against for sales. But when they go out of their way to compare the Typhoon to the Raptor - an airplane that they are not competing against for sales and which outclasses any other airplane flying today - they only make themselves look foolish.

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shep1978 wrote:

Er, care to point out where US marketing has made a claim as utterly ridiculous as this recent claim by Eurofighter? I sure can't think of one. I swear if the Ark Royal was put up for sale by Eurofighter they'd be claiming its as capable as a Nimitz class carrier. I'm sure they appreciate your valiant white knighting and excusing of them though.

Boeing about the F-15K:
"It's so good it needs no stealth to hide". Funny we see an F-15SE today.

Boeing about the F-15SE:
"Comparable RCS from frontal aspect". Was later rejected.

LM
"Only 5th generation fighter can survive"

LM about the F-16IN:
"Can survive in highest threat environments"

They aren't even consistent in what they say and conflict their own claims.

Scorpion82 wrote:

Boeing about the F-15K:
"It's so good it needs no stealth to hide". Funny we see an F-15SE today.

Boeing about the F-15SE:
"Comparable RCS from frontal aspect". Was later rejected.

LM
"Only 5th generation fighter can survive"

LM about the F-16IN:
"Can survive in highest threat environments"

They aren't even consistent in what they say and conflict their own claims.

Fair point, they're as bad as each other but it doesn't detract from this being a retarded and baseless claim by the Eurofighter gang.

shep1978 wrote:

Fair point, they're as bad as each other but it doesn't detract from this being a retarded and baseless claim by the Eurofighter gang.

True, but that's the way marketing is. My suggestion don't bother, except you want to have a good laugh. Wink

Well in truth (from what I recall in the article), they didn't really say that the EF could match the F-22, they just showed a bunch of numbers between the planes that are similar.

Doesn't mean nothing was implied, or that this tactic is any better than saying it outright.

Also, I don't really see those two LM quotes as necessarily contradictory, at least when out of context. Not to say that LM isn't guilty of advertising of course.

This sure proves that some people believe in dreams/fiction more that reality/actuality. I highly doubt the Typhoon can even defeat the F-22A in someones Dream.

Now I LMAO

I'm sure i don't need to explain much on this, hence its already covered.

Not all Typhoon marketing people believe the hype that the Typhoon is the equal of the F-22. Especially the director of marketing for the EF, he has made many quotes about the F-22 being a superior fighter!
The EF marketing director David R. Hamilton once admitted that F-22 and Eurofighter were not in the same league... Any further discussion on this subject is waste of time.... F-22 will always be the better fighter but Eurofighter will be the better mult-role aircraft and will always be cheaper.

Typhoons 'Multirole' badge seems a bit of a joke though, what can it carry - LGB and JDAM? I can't think of anything else.
I'm sure there's alot of A-G kit waiting to be cleared but thats been the case for what, a decade now? Tornados are still doing the A_G work in Afghanistan whilst the shiney new Typhoons are doing nothing. I guess the RAF consider the Typhoon the weaker and less versatile of the two platforms in the A-G role.

I'm really not sure there is much difference between Raptor and Typhoons overall A-G capability, perhaps the edge goes to the Typhoon on paper, but in reality they both seem roughly equal in that game. The advantage certainly goes out the window for Typhoon when it has to enter any kind of airspace defended by SAM's or worse still fighters and SAM's working togther.

@shep,
at the moment the difference is indeed smaller, but the Typhoon will become more versatile with the integration of additional weapons, which wasn't the first priority when the aircraft was designed, as the F-22 wasn't designed with dropping JDAMs/SDBs in mind. In the medium term the Typhoon will definitely exceed the F-22 by a fair margin wrt multirole capability/versatility as any other modern multirole fighters does already. But that's nothing to blame the F-22 for, it was designed for AA and is predominantly used in that role, especially as the numbers had been cut back to such small quantities. The Typhoon needs its time as well, as have other aircraft. It took an F-15 14 years to gain any operational AG capabilities at all since it entered service! But nothing wrong with that either, given that the F-15 was designed as "not a pound for air to ground" air superiority fighter.

Scorpion82 wrote:

@shep,
at the moment the difference is indeed smaller, but the Typhoon will become more versatile with the integration of additional weapons,

But hell, they've been saying that for nearly 10 years now! What is the timetable, if there even is one for these new weapons to be cleared.

ATM it is somewhat unclear as it's not even clear whether there will be another major upgrade (P2E) or whether they will opt for smaller incremental upgrades to address operational requirements more quickly. In the latter case we might see things a bit sooner, in the latter case probably later. With the GR.4 force to be potentially reduced in upcoming years and the F-35 being further delayed, while the Harrier is withdrawn from service there is a certain chance that things might be accelerated now, at least wrt weapons integration which is the real problem. The Typhoon can at least engage TOOs for quite some time now, something a Raptor will be able to do with increment 3.1 yet to (be)come (operational).

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 Capabilty According to the Folks at Eurofighter