Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

So, anyone interested in this Harrier jet? Smile

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-BAE ... 682wt_1152

Quote:

Offered for sale is one 1998 British Aerospace Sea Harrier FA2, tail # ZH806. The total time on the airframe is a very low 1291 hours. The engine has 870 hours and it is a Rolls Royce Pegasus MK.104. The aircraft comes with complete logs. All weapons-related equipment removed. The aircraft will need communication and navigation equipment. This is not a demilitarized aircraft for static display only -- it is fully capable of being returned to flight condition with relatively minimal work. We have sold another one of these aircraft in the USA, and it is currently being operated by former military pilot Art Nalls as the only Harrier in the world operating in civilian hands. He is currently flying in the US airshow circuit under the Experimental/Exhibition category and will be flying at the EAA Airventure show in Oshkosh, Wisconsin at the end of July 2010. What this means is that the path has been opened for this aircraft with the FAA to fly in the US -- if you have a qualified pilot and maintenance crew.

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LOL, I saw an FA2 Sea Harrier in a Pub Beer garden 2 years ago, minus engine, avionics etc, the landlord bought ti off E-bay too. Such a shame!!!
Oddly there are still some prisitne condition Sea Harriers at RNAS Culdrose as an example, all they need is Avgas and they are ready to go Smile

snypa777 wrote:

....all they need is Avgas and they are ready to go Smile

NO!?!............. Shocked

You'd kill it!

Jet engines HATE Avgas. Doh

How about some fresh JP-5/JP-8 or Jet-A? Something with a lovely Kerosene bouquet. In Love

(Even Diesel fuel would work)

Cheers

TEG

Probably LOL but Harriers in UK service use or used 100LL AVGAS.

I reckon the Pegasus engine can use just about anything Smile

Does it have the blue vixen radar installed?

duplex wrote:

Does it have the blue vixen radar installed?

Not certain, but I would say highly unlikely. The Indian Navy wanted surplus FRS 2`s and inquired about them in the mid 2000`s, UK gov said, yes, you can have as many as you`d like.....MINUS Blue Vixen, RWR gear and AMRAAM. Understandably the Indians said no. The radar was the item the Indians wanted the most.

Blue Vixen was the precursor to CAPTOR in the Typhoon and I doubt it would be authorized selling it to a civvie operator.

There would really be no need for a civilian to have that equipment. 1. The radar and defensive equipment are still classified. 2. He's not going to use it for anything...and 3. He very likely, he won't know how to properly operate it, or keep it maintained.

snypa777 wrote:

duplex wrote:

Does it have the blue vixen radar installed?

Not certain, but I would say highly unlikely. The Indian Navy wanted surplus FRS 2`s and inquired about them in the mid 2000`s, UK gov said, yes, you can have as many as you`d like.....MINUS Blue Vixen, RWR gear and AMRAAM. Understandably the Indians said no. The radar was the item the Indians wanted the most.

Blue Vixen was the precursor to CAPTOR in the Typhoon and I doubt it would be authorized selling it to a civvie operator.

Blue vixen was such an outstanding radar that a Harrier was deployed in Kosova just because of this !
Btw..nice to see you posting again snypa777. . I thought you married your Spanish girlfriend and settled in Spain for good.

Quote:

Probably LOL but Harriers in UK service use or used 100LL AVGAS.

I reckon the Pegasus engine can use just about anything Smile

The T-33’s centrifugal flow jet engine could also use Avgas. I had to do this one day on a stopover at White Plains when the Guard there had O-2’s. For each flight with Avgas you had to fly some number of flights on JP4 before you could do it again.

You also had to add a bunch of gallons of oil to the Avgas. Must have been a two-stroke centrifugal flow jet engine. Come to think of it, it did sound a little like a weedeater.

Very Happy

OL

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

snypa777 wrote:

Probably LOL but Harriers in UK service use or used 100LL AVGAS.

I reckon the Pegasus engine can use just about anything Smile

What?? Seriously? Why in the world would they burn high octane leaded gasoline instead of jet fuel?

'Most' turbine engines 'can' operate on most liquid fuels that will burn sufficiently. Oil, Kerosene, Diesel, Jet Fuel (MIL or CIV), even rocket fuel like RP-1 that is Kerosene based. Synthetic fuels made from just about anything work too.

The problem is this, AVGAS burns hot and fast, the amount of power per unit of fuel is much lower than Kerosene based jet fuels. Kerosene based fuels will release more power (heat) per pound of fuel.

See this chart which was taken/borrowed from Weekepedia. While it may not be 100% accurate, it is in line with the figures I've seen in other publications and clearly illustrates what we're talking about here:

Fuel type........................BTU/US gal.....Octane
Regular gasoline/petrol....125,000.........91
Ethanol............................84,600.........129
Methanol.........................64,600..........123
Gasohol..........................121,000.........93/94
E85................................118,950.........100–105
Diesel.............................138,700........N/A (see cetane)
BioDiesel.........................126,200........N/A (see cetane)
Vegetable oil...................123,143
Aviation gasoline..............120,200.........80-145
Jet fuel, naphtha..............127,500.........N/A to turbine engines
Jet fuel, kerosene............135,000.........N/A to turbine engines

When you're burning many gallons per minute and LOTS per hour, this makes a HUGE difference in performance and on long-term engine longevity. IE - not highly recommended by engine OEMs.

Put 110LL into a jet engine, and 1-it will run hot, 2-it will make less thrust. You'd be better off running 'cheap pump gas' versus 110LL.

So while putting road grade 'unleaded regular' into your F-16 is feasibly possible in extreme war-time cases where strategic availability of JP8 is limited; it is only done if needed for 'last ditch' national defense.

I too have seen 'charts' for the range of a US Military aircraft running 'pump gas', and it was poor (at best) when compared to Diesel or Kerosene. (IF/when strategic need required)

I'll also add for those following, oil or other lubricity additives must be mixed into 'non-OEM approved' fuels as needed to compensate for the prescribed jet fuel's normal lubricating properties. Jet fuel acts as a lubricant to the pumps and controls it flows through. Gasoline, or straight Kerosene wouldn't have these properties built into it like jet fuel, so additives would be needed to keep engine and aircraft pumps from being damaged. Even using JET-A in an F-16 requires special attention.

The F100 is rated to use primarily JP-4, NATO F-40 or alternatively JP-8, JP-5, Jet A, Jet A-1, Jet B, NATO F-34, F-35, F-43, or F-44... ...but that's the motor and the airframe (LM) has other requirements (that are more stringent) that must be meet as well. The pumps/system in the airframe can be damaged if the 'alternate' fuels are used in high quantity or for long durations.

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

Wow, the knowledge we can glean from this Forum amazes me more and more each day... Shocked

Moral of the story; You're better off drinking your Ethanol and using Diesel fuel in your Viper if there isn't JP4 or JP8 available.

Just don't drink and fly!

Cheers

TEG

duplex wrote:

Blue vixen was such an outstanding radar that a Harrier was deployed in Kosova just because of this !
Btw..nice to see you posting again snypa777. . I thought you married your Spanish girlfriend and settled in Spain for good.

Hi Duplex! You have a good memory Smile

We settled in the UK instead....and she still hates the weather here hehe.

The Harriers were deployed to Kosovo anyway, but NATO liked Blue Vixens capability so used the SHARS as Mini AWACS but I don`t know where or how exactly.

Mr Smiley! Hi to you too, good to see your still around, Hi TC!
Not at all sure why AVGAS would have been used, I talked to an ex navy guy at work and he says AVGAS was used but AVCAT, which is JP-4? and Jet-A1 were other fuels the Harrier could use, probably JET A-1 favourite Harrier Juice today. He also said "Don`t quote me" hehe as his memory is a bit dim. Would love some solid info!

I guess the pegasus manufacturers would be a good starting place, but I worked for Rolls on auto`s not aero engines, then later GEC.

Hi Snypa...and welcome back!

The Sea Harriers were probably used in the same manner as how the Iranians supposedly used the AWG-9s in their F-14s against Iraq.

BTW, forgive me for pleading ignorance here, but I would assume that the Blue Vixen radar is the reason for the Sea Harrier having a different radome than the GR9s and the AV-8Bs?

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

For sale via eBay: BAE Sea Harrier