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FlightDreamz
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Posted: May 29, 2010 - 08:29 PM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 18, 2007 - 06:18 PM
Posts: 646
Location: Long Island, New York
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Sadly turning the "last generation" of fighters into target drones is nothing new (just ask Gums)! I hear what you're saying Discofishing and I sympathize (and cheap target drones IS a good idea - whatever happened to the BQM-34's anyway?) but better to go out in a blaze of glory than be recycled into tin cans like A.M.A.R.C. is rapidly doing to the dwindling supply of F-14 Tomcat's in the boneyard. Just my  |
_________________ A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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Sponsor
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Posted: May 26, 2013 - 8:27 AM
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F-16.net Sponsor
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uslugg1
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Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 11:08 PM
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Newbie

Joined: Dec 22, 2009 - 05:32 PM
Posts: 19
Location: Tucson
Status: Offline
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| I spent a long time crewing F-16's and it doesn't break my heart to see them being used for drones, we have too many of them here at AMARG that will never be used or sold anyway. To my knowledge, we have not disposed of any. They're stored out in the desert for parts reclamation. We don't have many F-4's left that are worthy candidates for drones and like I said, we have plenty of the F-16's sitting around. I think they're more cost-effective to convert to drones than F-4's, so it makes sense. |
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JochemP
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 04:21 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Aug 31, 2006 - 11:50 PM
Posts: 292
Status: Offline
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| In the end... it'll go down being a VIPER! |
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Roscoe
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Posted: Jun 12, 2010 - 08:29 AM
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Elite 1K

Joined: Jun 29, 2004 - 09:14 PM
Posts: 1279
Location: Las Vegas
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discofishing wrote:
This is tragic. The USAF should switch to making cheap drones. If you can find and engage a cruise missile size target, then you should have no problem with a normal fighter sized one.
Two completely different animals. We do use sub-scale aerial targets a lot, but there are times that you just have to have a full scale target. |
_________________ Roscoe
<b>"It's time to get medieval, I'm goin' in for guns"</b> - <i>Dos Gringos</i>
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Ixtlan
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Posted: Jun 13, 2010 - 01:30 AM
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Newbie

Joined: Sep 13, 2009 - 07:32 PM
Posts: 5
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Keep in mind these are Block 15 and 25 jets.
The option of parts reclamation is not needed from these jets as they share little to no interchangeability with 30+ generations.
Nor do they have a value for Foreign Military service in the future.
Since we are retiring the 30/32 fleet the FM community would be better served with the 30 series.
So we can let them rot in the desert or find a use for them. |
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Boman
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Posted: Jun 13, 2010 - 10:52 AM
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Elite 1K

Joined: Jul 08, 2004 - 08:22 PM
Posts: 1108
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Ixtlan wrote:
Nor do they have a value for Foreign Military service in the future.
You are forgetting that Romania has been offered 24 Block 's, so this is not correct |
_________________ Best regards
Niels
http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/NC-Boman/
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numeceva
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Posted: Jun 14, 2010 - 08:52 AM
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Newbie

Joined: Jun 13, 2010 - 04:47 PM
Posts: 10
Location: Bucharest
Status: Offline
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| we aren't buying anything this year because we don't have money |
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Raptor_DCTR
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Posted: Jun 14, 2010 - 04:24 PM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: May 23, 2005 - 03:13 AM
Posts: 661
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Ixtlan wrote:
Keep in mind these are Block 15 and 25 jets.
The option of parts reclamation is not needed from these jets as they share little to no interchangeability with 30+ generations.
Block 25 and 32 jets are virtually the same aircraft so this is incorrect. Also some parts can be used on other blocks. There is some commonality. |
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Asif
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 05:44 PM
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F-16.net Editor

Joined: Aug 23, 2003 - 01:02 PM
Posts: 2799
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TechNewsDaily wrote:
Old Fighter Jets to Be Destroyed in Target Practice
By Ned Smith, TechNewsDaily contributor
14 July 2010 9:29 AM ET
A squadron of ageing U.S. Air Force fighter jets will be converted into drones that will be used for friendly fire target practice.
The Lockheed-Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon is the flagship jet of the Thunderbirds, the U.S. Air Force’s precision flying team, and is flown by the Air Force, Air Force Reserves and Air National Guard. But the fighter has been in service since 1979 and early models that are getting long in the tooth are now marching into retirement. They won’t go quietly, though. The Air Force has launched a program to convert many of these F-16s into QF-16 drones that will intentionally be shot down.
The Fighting Falcon is being turned into a clay pigeon that can streak through the sky at a speed in excess of Mach 2, or twice the speed of sound.
Boeing was awarded a $69.7 million contract from the Air Force to convert six F-16s as the first phase of the Q-16 program. Eventually as many as 126 of the sleek fighters will be converted into drones to be used as targets to test newly developed air-to-air weapons and tactics. [Read "7 Unmanned Airborne Warriors."]
The conversion is now underway at the company’s Cecil Field facility in Jacksonville, Fla. The first group of QF-16s will be turned over to the Air Force for testing in June 2012, said Bob Insinna, Boeing’s QF-16 program manager. The QF-16s will replace the current cro of QF-4 drones, which are converted versions of a Vietnam-era warhorse, the F-4 Phantom.
More agile targets
The number of usable F-4s is dwindling and the F-16s are higher performing aircraft that will provide a more realistic testing environment. The QF-16 drones will have the same performance capabilities as the F-16 fighter. The F-16, Insinna told TechNewsDaily, “is smaller, more maneuverable and more difficult to fight against.”
When the F-16s arrive at Boeing’s facility, they are stripped down to remove unneeded parts, including the fighter’s Vulcan six-barrel 20mm cannon. Because the Air Force requires that the QF-16 be able to fly in both manned and unmanned modes, Boeing will modify the flight control system, working in a teaming arrangement with BAE, the original equipment manufacturer for the F-16 flight control system.
Other modifications to the F-16 include installation of a flight termination system that can destroy the drone if it goes out of control, command telemetry systems so the drone can be controlled from the ground and a scoring system to gauge the accuracy of air-to-air missiles fired at the drone.
Transformers
Boeing will convert the six F-16s in a parallel operation that uses a cellular approach much like an assembly line to advance the aircraft through each stage of the conversion process. It will take seven months for each F-16 to be converted into a QF-16.
The final stage in the conversion process is painting parts of the QF-16 a bright orange as a visual aid to signify it is a target drone. Typically, the tail and the tips of the horizontal stabilizers and wing are painted. The orange paint is the only readily apparent visual distinction between the F-16 and its doomed QF-16 derivative.
When the QF-16 is being flown by a pilot aboard it will be used to evaluate tactics and electronic warfare and electronic countermeasures such as radar jamming. Switching over to autonomous operation is “just a flip of a switch,” said Insinna.
The QF-16 may have an active retirement, but it won’t be a long one. A drone on average has an operational lifespan of 50 to 300 hours, he said.
source: http://www.technewsdaily.com/boeing-con ... rone-0854/
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_________________ Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
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VprWzl
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 05:52 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Sep 15, 2003 - 04:01 AM
Posts: 314
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Asif
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 06:13 PM
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F-16.net Editor

Joined: Aug 23, 2003 - 01:02 PM
Posts: 2799
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Can someone confirm as the video is not clear, that the 2 other airframes are: #82-0946??? & former 174 FW flagship #85-1570
Means we got a mix bag of drones on the way. Blk 15, 25 & a 30. |
_________________ Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
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madrat
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 06:56 PM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Mar 03, 2010 - 03:12 AM
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| I cannot imagine the thrill of shooting live missiles at a live target like that. Has to be good for morale. |
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Asif
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 07:11 PM
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F-16.net Editor

Joined: Aug 23, 2003 - 01:02 PM
Posts: 2799
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jacksonville.com wrote:
Boeing begins drone project at Cecil
$69.7 million contract is converting fighter jets into drones for training.
Posted: July 9, 2010 - 11:18pm
By Timothy J. Gibbons
The F-16 that touched down at Cecil Field on Friday morning is destined for a somewhat ignoble end: first turned into a drone and then shot down into the ocean.
For the Air Force and the workforce at Cecil, though, the plane represented the first step in something much bigger.
In coming years, workers at the Boeing facility based at Cecil will turn that F-16 and many more like it into aerial targets that will help the military develop new weapon systems and tactics.
As Boeing works on that $69.7 million contract, about 45 jobs will be added to the 250-person workforce Boeing now has at Cecil.
In some ways more important than the raw number of jobs, though, the project demonstrates Boeing's commitment to the area, said John Haley, senior vice president of business development with the Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce.
"It adds to the credibility of Cecil to have more major first-line manufacturers doing this sort of work here," he said.
Cecil got the work because it shares similarities with F/A-18 repair work Boeing is already doing at the site, said Steve Waltman, the company's director of Aircraft Sustainment & Maintenance. "We'll use the existing facilities, the existing skills," he said.
The modification of the aircraft is important if the United States is to maintain the aerial dominance it has enjoyed for decades, said those involved with the project.
While the Air Force has been focused on supporting the fight against low-technology-level foes in Iraq and Afghanistan, it can't let its skills in more sophisticated air battles languish, said Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla.
"We must remain prepared for operations across the full spectrum of conflict," the congressman said.
The new drones will enable the military to do so by putting fourth-generation aircraft in the enemy role, moving forward from the third-generation F-4 Phantom II now being used, said Ken Hislop, QF-16 program manager.
The Air Force will run out of Phantoms to turn into drones in 2013, requiring the new target and decoy planes to be ready by 2016.
At Cecil, Boeing first will focus on six planes it will use to develop and evaluate the changes it needs to make to the aircraft.
Beginning in 2014, the company will move into full production of the drones. The first phase of the contract calls for the modification of 126 aircraft.
The aircraft are used to help the Air Force gather information about its weapons systems as well as develop new tactics, said Michel Brazez, director of the 691st Armament Systems Squadron, based at Eglin Air Force Base. After a number of flights in which unarmed missiles will narrowly avoid the jets, the aircraft will be shot out of the sky.
source: http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-0 ... ject-cecil
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| Description: |
| Workers at the Boeing facility based at Cecil Field will turn fighter jets into aerial targets that will help the military develop new weapons systems and tactics. [Photo by DON BURK] |
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_________________ Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
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Prinz_Eugn
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Posted: Jul 15, 2010 - 04:39 AM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM
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madrat wrote:
I cannot imagine the thrill of shooting live missiles at a live target like that. Has to be good for morale.
Yeah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISpZYajveA |
_________________ "A visitor from Mars could easily pick out the civilized nations. They have the best implements of war."
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Asif
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Posted: Jul 27, 2010 - 05:34 PM
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F-16.net Editor

Joined: Aug 23, 2003 - 01:02 PM
Posts: 2799
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Can we now confirm #82-0986 is one of the possible drones??.
Boeing, Jacksonville Community Celebrate Arrival of F-16s for Aerial Target Program
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., July 15, 2010 -- Boeing employees joined congressional representatives, local government officials and community leaders on July 9 at Cecil Field in Jacksonville to celebrate the arrival of the first F-16s for the QF-16 aerial target program. In this photo, Steve Waltman, Boeing director of Aircraft Sustainment & Maintenance, addresses the audience at the event. Pictured left to right: Adele Griffin from Sen. George Lemieux's office, Rep. Ander Crenshaw (R-4th), Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-6th), Michelle Barth from Sen. Bill Nelson's office. |
| Description: |
| Boeing employees joined congressional representatives, local government officials and community leaders on July 9 at Cecil Field in Jacksonville to celebrate the arrival of the first F-16s for the QF-16 aerial target program. [Photo credit: Boeing photo] |
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_________________ Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
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