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Are there any engineers out there that can talk about the math they use on the job? I've heard some engineers say they use little, while some say the use a lot. Anyone care to comment?

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Depends on the job. I'm in flight test...most I ever use is trig. I have an MS in Aero engineering with a dozen classes in calculus and DifEQ and never use any of it.

That said, having an understanding of it certainly comes in handy at times...

Salute!

Don't take Roscoe-breath's comment to heart.

My crappy calculus grades kept me outta test pilot school, even tho I was highly-recommended by the faculty there two years in a row.

The personnel weenies didn't understand that a test pilot doesn't have to be able to design a neat, new jet - he just has to be able to fly it well and provide accurate narrative of wha happened. Witness Yeager and others.

So if you wanna be an astronaut or test pilot, better bone up on that math whether you use it or not later.

As a systems engineer integrating the new weapons on old jets I used quite a bit of spherical trig for targeting data, satellite line-of-sight, etc. We used a fair amount of Fourier functions analyzing vibration data, but nothing that an off-the-shelf PC program couldn't handle.

Gums sends ....

Interesting. My background is as an AH-64D Armament, Avionics, and Electrical Systems technician (8 years). I'm working on a degree in EE right now, but since I have so much free college, thanks to my VA benefits, I plan on getting my ME and AE degrees as well. The idea is to take my military experience, combine it with some engineering degrees and hopefully work in the defense industry. I'd like to continue serving my country without boots and a rifle.

So far I've done pretty good in my math classes, although they can be stressful. Right now I'm in a month long Calculus II class and boy is it brutal. I just got home after spending over 12 hours doing nothing but various types of integrals. Do any of you guys have any helpful studying tips for my next semester? I'm taking Cal III, Linear Algebra, Physics 2 (elec-mag) and Ethics this fall and am concerned about how I'll manage it all.

True, but most of the hard math is done on the computers. Heck, even Excel now has some amazing tools. Thing is, the computer answer is only as good as your inputs...and you have to be able to predict the answer close enough to know if the computer did it right.

Never said math wasn't important, just answered the question as to whether I use it in my job.

discofishing wrote:

Are there any engineers out there that can talk about the math they use on the job? I've heard some engineers say they use little, while some say the use a lot. Anyone care to comment?

Depends on whether you are talking hardware or software, disco. Also depends on where in the industry you plan on going. I have seen some excellent engineering talent wasted on generating documentation for specs, test, design and such. Four years of engineering, top grades, and they are hired to write books.

LOTS of the math is built into the design programs but understanding it is important to using it correctly. Like everyone said, you need to know if it "looks right" when you get the answer.
fisk

Salute disco-breath!

A few years ago I helped another F-16.net dude get into USAF pilot training via the Guard.

He had an Apache background.

Last i heard he was flying Vipers for the Green Mountain Boys.

The math won't hurt, but i would look for a school that has a 'systems engineer" major. Jack of all trades degree, but not real heavy on one thing or another. I can tell you that I was way ahead of the computer nerdniks and the pure EE folks. I knew a little about mech, aero, computers, thermo, even orbital mechanics. So I could look at and help solve problems with the "big picture" in mind.

Gums sends...

Gums,

I can't fly dude. Even if I could, it'd be an Apache. I will look into systems engineering as a later degree, but right now, I don't think any school in TX is offering it. That's why I'm shooting for multiple degrees.

Salute!

Good point, fisker-breath.

OTOH, I had to re-write almost every sentence that came outta our sfwe shop for a proposal, a spec, a user's manual, etc. When I visit my high school each year for "career day" I bring some of the specs and other crapola that I wrote as an "engineer". I do this to emphasize the importance of being able to communicate. You can be the best damned sfwe puke that ever walked the face of the Earth, or a craker jack aero dude, or a super chip designer, but you have to communicate your great work to others, especially the end users.

I didn't look upon all the time I spent writing as wasted. I wanted to sell our product and more importantly, help the grunts, jarheads and nasal radiators have more effective weapon systems.

Ask the test pilots of the "x-planes" how much they wrote after each mission. I'll bet they spent ten or twenty hours writing about a 30 minute hop.

As with the math, and as Roscoe pointed out, it's a necessary evil if you want to do something that you really like and are good at.

Meanwhile, jump thru the hoops and get where you want to. Ain't easy, but it comes down to how bad you want it.

Gums sends ...

Gums

I copy and agree. The problem with putting newbie grads to work creating specs is they don't know the system for which they are generating the specs. All of our new hires were top-of-class grads but didn't know much more about air machines other than that's how they got to the interview.

Experience is the key, the trick is you have to survive long enough to get some.
fisk

Salute!

Very true, fisk-breath.

I survived my combat time and could write. The company Veep told me later that my cover letter for the job application was more important than my "stellar" record, heh heh.

I had a super perspective on armament systems and had barely enuf engineering background to be relevant. Our EE and sftwe folks were basically clueless.

All that being said, I would encourage the yutes to study hard and not be afraid to take a lower salary in an outfit that offers progression in terms of responsibility and $$$$. The bright shinies will always rise to the top.

Secondly, doesn't hurt to get some real world experience before jumping into the corporate world. That's one good reason to serve in the military or take a low level job in your field of interest.

Gums sends ...

I had some time in the automotive industry and the only thing I used was my hp48 calculator. Most of the work done was rule-of-thumb calculations despite all of the vast amount of engineering literature on SI engines.

However, IMO, trigonometry is always needed and one need to know derivatives and anti-derivatives if he wants to grasp the engineering/scientific theory of the subject. Numerical methods (such as matrix operations, iterations) are good to know although a computer will be doing them for you at all times.

It really depends on which field of engineering you're in. Each uses its own funky math. If you're in heat transfer, that's relatively straightforward math. You can do some basic algebra for back of the envelope calculations. Stress/strain? Second order calculus stuff. If you're in fluids (I was for a while), you better at least understand partial differential equations and how to read them. You're not going to be doing those calculations, you can't. But you have to understand them to understand the meaning behind all that crap you put into a computer.

I floored a few people when I was at Belcan because they asked for a idea of how much something would be and I would break out a book, not turn to my computer. It is absolutely imperative in engineering to understand the theory behind what you're doing, including the math. This is because if you get numbers out of a computer, you have either no idea what they mean or no idea why they're wrong. Even for incredibly complex problems, there should be some very basic equation you can solve to get near (as in within an order of magnitude).

disco,
You could do worse than majoring in Mechanical Engineering if Systems is unavailable to you. ME contains courses in computers, controls, structures, electronics, power, thermal, design, etc. Throw in some aero electives and you'd be set for a good career in aerospace systems. Plus, with the ME degree, when the inevitable aero layoffs threaten, you'd be in better shape than most to change industries if necessary. Worked for me.

As the others have said, most engineers don't use much of the higher powered math (Diff Eq for example), but understanding trig and calculus is essential, even if the computers do all the work. The computers are a blessing of course. You have no idea how much fun it is to solve a 4 x 40 multiple regression using only a mechanical desk top calculator.

johnwill,

Thanks for the info, it's good to know. My overall goal is to be a well rounded engineer with an emphasis on the electrical side. I think it's all really fascinating stuff! A well paying career is good, but in the end I want job satisfaction. I hope I can at least stay somewhat frosty on the math. I would like to be a tutor and help fellow military veterans get through math classes.

Forum: Off-topic

Math and Engineering