Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Habu wrote:

kubam4a1 wrote:

I think not, but for example F-16A and MiG-29A also haven't ever faced and, we compare them.

No, but the F-16C/D and the MiG-29 have met in combat. All engaments won by the F-16 so far.

In operating allied force, RNLAF and USAF F-16s had MiG-29 kills.

F-16.net Sponsor

While slower, the F-5 had an edge in many areas compared to the MiG-21. However, the upgraded and revamped MiG-21s of the 21st century that some countries field are vastly superior in many ways. These MiGs are certainly a bird of a different feather and are in a different class now.

kubam4a1 wrote:

How do you think which of them is better? Both are the "cheap" fighters produced by USA and USSR for poorer countries. I think F-5 has better radar system while MiG has bigger speed. I also think that they are quite comparable.
What do you [Link pending approval]
regards,

Maybe we could present some performance facts then you decide. Roughly, fire control: about the same;
top speed: MiG has SEP zero at about Mach [Link pending approval] higher speed;
sustained turns: F-5 somewhat better subsonically;
instantaneous turns: F-5 better except if MiG turns to beyond allowed alpha, to the stall;
trimmed alpha: MiG about 10 deg higher;

Now one of those fully modernized Mig-21 vs a F-20 Tigershark would be an interesting fight.

michael82 wrote:

kubam4a1 wrote:

How do you think which of them is better? Both are the "cheap" fighters produced by USA and USSR for poorer countries. I think F-5 has better radar system while MiG has bigger speed. I also think that they are quite comparable.
What do you [Link pending approval]
regards,

Maybe we could present some performance facts then you decide. Roughly, fire control: about the same;
top speed: MiG has SEP zero at about Mach [Link pending approval] higher speed;
sustained turns: F-5 somewhat better subsonically;
instantaneous turns: F-5 better except if MiG turns to beyond allowed alpha, to the stall;
trimmed alpha: MiG about 10 deg higher;

Maybe i did not undestand fully.
There is no question in subsonic speeds especially above 20 thousand feet Mig-21 is far superior in turning speed.
Also it has fantastic roll rate that will make dogfight turning lighting fast.

Back in the 80s, the FWS and TOPGUN IPs frequently flew F-5s with and against the Fishbed C and E models, and also the Chinese J-7s.

They found that the Fishbed, while slightly larger, had slightly more power. However, head to head, the Tiger does have the advantage of a second engine, increasing survivability.

Pilots from the 4477th TES who flew both, said that the rear viz was almost identical, which was one of the Fishbed's disadvantages against more modern US-built fighters, such as the Eagle and Viper.

TC wrote:

Back in the 80s, the FWS and TOPGUN IPs frequently flew F-5s with and against the Fishbed C and E models, and also the Chinese J-7s.

They found that the Fishbed, while slightly larger, had slightly more power. However, head to head, the Tiger does have the advantage of a second engine, increasing survivability.

Pilots from the 4477th TES who flew both, said that the rear viz was almost identical, which was one of the Fishbed's disadvantages against more modern US-built fighters, such as the Eagle and Viper.

You have to remeber fishbed C and E models are totally inferior in performance compared to the later Mig-21-Bis.

"lampshade111: Now one of those fully modernized Mig-21 vs a F-20 Tigershark would be an interesting fight. "

I think MiG-21 could not compete with F-20, except above Mach [Link pending approval] where it is far better, as F-104 or F-4 are. At these speeds F-20 can be better only in instantaneous g.

"equalizer: Maybe i did not undestand fully.
There is no question in subsonic speeds especially above 20 thousand feet Mig-21 is far superior in turning speed.
Also it has fantastic roll rate that will make dogfight turning lighting [Link pending approval];

Are you sure? Maybe link to discusion on other forum can save time:
[Link pending approval];page=4

There are myths about MiG-21 that need resolving. Also F-5 data are slightly exaggerated, on account on marketing. You can see that there is no correct data on its wingspan or wing area. Span covers part of missiles and area LEX, that should not be accounted.

michael82 wrote:

"lampshade111: Now one of those fully modernized Mig-21 vs a F-20 Tigershark would be an interesting fight. "

I think MiG-21 could not compete with F-20, except above Mach [Link pending approval] where it is far better, as F-104 or F-4 are. At these speeds F-20 can be better only in instantaneous g.

"equalizer: Maybe i did not undestand fully.
There is no question in subsonic speeds especially above 20 thousand feet Mig-21 is far superior in turning speed.
Also it has fantastic roll rate that will make dogfight turning lighting [Link pending approval];

Are you sure? Maybe link to discusion on other forum can save time:
[Link pending approval];page=4

There are myths about MiG-21 that need resolving. Also F-5 data are slightly exaggerated, on account on marketing. You can see that there is no correct data on its wingspan or wing area. Span covers part of missiles and area LEX, that should not be accounted.

I will read the posts later as i am very busy right now.
But yes Mig-21-Bis is superior in turning speeds above certain altitudes , it is very agile.
What is Mig-21-bis and all Mig-21's weakness is the high energy drain while turning.
Expecialy in low altitudes the drain is significant and there f-4 with it's great thurst has great advantage.

Latest Chinese double deltas are very interesting.

Yeah, they seems useful and price is probably bargain. Attractive choice for not so rich countries during economic crisis.

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

F-5E vs. MiG-21Bis