Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

ATFS_Crash wrote:

LinkF16SimDude wrote:

Article from FlightGlobal.com here.

The rotors on the artist conceptions of the fixed wing aircraft are too large to do a conventional landing; which I think could be a disadvantage because it commits the aircraft to being a vertical takeoff and landing aircraft; I think this also tends to reduce payload capacity and safety. Though I'd imagine in an emergency you could probably sacrifice the rotor blades and do a conventional landing; however the rotor blades under such circumstances could be a threat to the occupants.

But it does add versatility. It can sling loads externally and live the loads right where the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps want them.

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Using the same equipment doesn't mean joint ops or joint missions. The air force's MH-53s (which are now retired in favor of the cv-22s) and ospreys are assigned to air force special ops. Their primary mission is insertion of PJs behind enemy lines to rescue downed pilots. Their secondary mission is support of other united within the SOCOM community. It was selected for this mission because of its speed. What the CV-22s will not be doing is transporting marine rifleman to the battlefield.

The CV-22 isnt the primary rescue bird for the USAF. Rescue Squadrons (which aren't ALL part of AFSOC) use the HH-60 Pavehawk. SOSs also use it, but they drop the H for the M for MH-60(for special missions I think). The CV-22 is pretty much a AFSOC aircraft. I think the reason that rescue units don't use the Osprey is because it has questionable hovering performance at high altitudes and it would be difficult to integrate a wench into it. The USAF wants a new CSAR aircraft and initially chose the H-47 Chinook, but the GAO put their plans on hold for now. Anyways, Marines now have dedicated SOCOM units in the form of MARSOC which operate two major groups. One of AFSOC's major missions is supporting the other SOCOM assets like MARSOC, Rangers, Delta Force, etc. The USAF doesn't have the direct action operators per say. They have individual airmen in the form of FACs and PJs that are embedded into various SOCOM units. This is have they've trained since the early 80s. USAF is constantly training with other branches of the military. With that said, AFSOC CV-22s have probably been shuttling around MARSOC operators in joint missions (which are beyond ordinary Marine riflemen) for a quite a while now, even though the Marines have their own Ospreys. MARSOC will be more inclined to use CV-22s rather than MV-22s because the USAF has more specific training in special missions and their birds are equipped with radar so they can follow the terrain and monitor the weather. SOCOM is like one big unit. They are blind to the branches of the military in some ways. MV-22s are gonna be used to support more conventional forces.

ATFS_Crash wrote:

madrat wrote:

But people continue to die disproportionately to using the V-22 than the helicopters it was meant to replace.

I think you're wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I thought the facts were on the contrary. I thought the crash and casualty rates amongst helicopters was much higher than the V-22.

I don't think though the V-22 was really meant to replace any particular aircraft. Perhaps our difference of opinion is that you are assuming that the V-22 is supposed to replace the C-130. I think the V-22 fills a niche that no other aircraft has been capable of filling. I think the V-22 fills a niche between the C-130 and helicopters.

LinkF16SimDude wrote:

Article from FlightGlobal.com here.

The rotors on the artist conceptions of the fixed wing aircraft are too large to do a conventional landing; which I think could be a disadvantage because it commits the aircraft to being a vertical takeoff and landing aircraft; I think this also tends to reduce payload capacity and safety. Though I'd imagine in an emergency you could probably sacrifice the rotor blades and do a conventional landing; however the rotor blades under such circumstances could be a threat to the occupants.

This is old, but just a couple of notes:

The V-22 got a bad rap on loss of personnel from the uniformed press. It carries a lot more people than an OH-58. If you carry more people then a loss potentially involves more people. That said, its record is very good.

The V-22 can make conventional landings, the nacelles are simply rotated up to where the proprotor tips clear the ground. However, there's no reason to normally do a conventional landing. In the case of an emergency , gliding in after a double power failure, the rotation and design of the proprotors is such that the blades are thrown away from the cabin.

Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

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