Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

I believe the MiG-21 would make a great "high end" warbird to own and fly in the US.
It would be a hit on the airshow circuit too, maybe.
Probably not really good for much else.

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HunterKiller wrote:

Mig-21bis (Fishbed N), 6xR-60 missiles, RP-22 Saphire radar, 2x23 mm gun

In russian aviation books are claims, that 21bis has a momentary climb rate about 240 m/sec and continious turn rate about 10 deg/sec

I heard that Fishbed has spectacular roll rate (about 90 deg sec).

How good this is in real dogfight and how chances are against other planes from that area (F-5E, Mirage III, F-4E, Saab Draken)?

Finnish air force has used them for years (only "Western" force, I think).

[Link pending approval]

My uncle flew Mig 21-Bis for 20 years (Finnish)
I can tell that in dogfight all Saab Dragen models are inferior.

michael82, you seem to be posting about this book a lot...

perhaps you are trying too hard at selling it instead of having a discussion? Idea

This Forum is not about making sales pitches, methinks. Big No No

I'm trying to get similar book with official data about F-14, Viggen, [Link pending approval] anybody knows where I can get them, please let me know. These a/c are not operational any more and instead of imagining and guessing we could read some fact about them. Now, there are plenty of MiG-21 books. This one even compares its performance with F-4 in the same, understandable format.
If anybody wants to discuss here are issues for the beginning:
to what angles of attack Aggressor MiG-21 was flown?
what's its corner velocity?
what limits its max speeds (at low and high altitudes)
how bis engine (R-25) has such a high augmentation ratio or such a low specific thrust?

The Tumansky R-25-300 has a secondary fuel pump in its afterburner section. I've read it referred to as a "super-afterburner" before. I think the pilot has the option of operating in either the normal afterburner setting or the super-afterburner mode; i.e. he doesn't have to go all the way if he doesn't want to. This is good because maximum augmentation greatly reduces the engine's life. Using it too long risks an explosion.

I wonder if there would be any merit to such a system on a more modern engine? Sure, it would reduce engine life and suck up a lot of fuel if used. However, saving it for emergency purposes doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

I know that… there are some kind of "war emergency mode" in other engines like in that of Su-27, export [Link pending approval] peace time thrust is lower than published.
I meant to ask how engine has such a high augmentation ratio 6850/4100 (67%), as turbofan engines…how so much air is unused in a core and left for afterburner combustion?

Or such a low specific (military) thrust?
I'm doubting cited R-25 thrust w/o AB although it is official figure.
Specific thrust is very [Link pending approval] engine has very low thrust for air mass flow and given pressure ratio. That indicates turbine inlet temperature lower than in R-11/13. But engine is much newer and published TIT is not low.

HunterKiller wrote:

I have heard from ex-Soviet airmen, that early Mig-23M Flogger B was step backward from Fishbed N, no maneuverability, .

Partly [Link pending approval] is more maneuverable only if flown outside limits !
See:
:
[Link pending approval];s=books&qid=1300287335&sr=1-1

Why the constant sales pitch for that Mig-21 book?

Also, it looks like something (a caption box?) was photoshopped out of the the upper left corner of that plot. Maybe those black dots are data points, with the lines interpolated?

These guys spam every forum with their little book. These same guys claim the MiG-21 can beat the F-15 if the fight slows to below 150 knots. Some forums delete the spam others leave it up.

Interestingly I've red that MiG-21 can beat F-15 in slow speed turns, in a book Red Eagles. How it can be done? What is the explanation?

I'd rather read something about that capability than your [Link pending approval] I think you guys are the one who are spamming the topic. I tried to buy the book but it wasn't available

Find it yourself. It's easily searchable trash spam that's been posted on every forum. Like I said, some have taken the spam down, others have left it up.

I do not really know what other forums are doing but I found this detail useful and [Link pending approval] its treatment made me to [Link pending approval]

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

MiG-21bis