Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 Cancellation
What actually is F-22 Raptor Myth or Scam?
Lockheed Martin said that it's the best fighter in the world using paper stats without a single prove. I heard that the total cost of each unit is around 370 million dollars. The F-22 was never used in real combat situation because is vulnerable to shot down even if get a shot from a AK-47. Before some week I heard that in a head to head combat (6 times in a real combat exercise) with a Rafale is just take 1 victory and the F-22 withdrew from the exercise a soon as possible. The stats said that an F-22 can easily shoot down 10 Sukhoi Su-27 but I think the stats is only to justify the huge budget. Actually I was a F-22 fan but now I think that is a 25 years old propaganda. I think that fighters like Su-35BM can easily beat in a real combat a F-22 and that is the real reason to cancel, they underestand that it is unacceptable 370 million fighter can not beat a Sukhoi made class fighter.

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Whoever wrote this (is it you?) clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

How is the Su-35BM going to get close enough to detect the F-22A? Yeah if you unloaded an AK into a parked F-22 you could probably do some damage, but try hitting the F-22 when it is flying at hundreds of miles per hour at thousands of feet. Even if you hit it once, the chances of that shot damaging a critical component are very slim.

trolls are funny...

Wow, when did the short bus arrive from the youtube forums?

Lol reminds me on a TV reportage back in 2003 where they interview an Iraqi who demonstrated the reportes how he wants to shoot down American aircraft. He climbed on a tree and aimed to the sky with his Kalashnikov. I laughed tears back then, this guy was serious about that.

I wonder if this is THE guy (Marx apologist type) who was recently banned.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

And I thought the game console fanboys were funny. Rooskie fanboys are 10x more entertaining. The REAL reason Raptor production was kneecapped was because the U.S.S.R. s%^& the bed and folded like a cheap suit, we were left without a reason to build 800+ stealthy air superiority fighters anymore.

I would suggest you read some of the articles and postings made by knowledgeable people;
F-16 Versus the F-22 By Vprwzl (an F-16 pilot) -3rd post on the page (04/17/05)
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... bc383fa95f ___ Pg#9

Time-to-climb record attempt - F-22A Raptor
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-15.html

F-22 Myths Debunked
http://www.afa.org/edop/2009/edop_7-13-09.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-62308.aspx

Raptors wield 'unfair' advantage at Red Flag
http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831
by By Tech. Sgt. Russell Wicke -Air Combat Command Public Affairs

The Well-Dressed Raptor Pilot -Practical Aircrew Apparel Has Come A Long Way
By Jeff Rhodes And Photos By John Rossino
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... index.html

P.S. -Check your Instant Messages for more reference information.

Guysmiley wrote:

And I thought the game console fanboys were funny. Rooskie fanboys are 10x more entertaining. The REAL reason Raptor production was kneecapped was because the U.S.S.R. s%^& the bed and folded like a cheap suit, we were left without a reason to build 800+ stealthy air superiority fighters anymore.

GS,

The real reason the F-22 was prematurely kneecapped was because it was needed to spend every available Tacair relevant procurement appropriations dollar on the F-35 program. Nobody is talking about needing 800 F-22s. But 260-300 units (with about 150-190 being block 35 variants the ones intended to serve beyond 2020), is/was a reasonably calculated tactical number to support.

However it was the unfortunately ongoing, well-intended but flawed stay-the-course cannibalizing JSF program and nothing else (in a budgetary environment of decreasing buying power) which forced by default, things such as prematurely capping the F-22.

Avon -

Thanks for those pertinent links. And as for 'Time-to-Alt-Climb' records go... put me in the group waiting for the day to see an appropriately clean F-15C with GE-132 power make that attempt Salute

geogen wrote:

The real reason the F-22 was prematurely kneecapped was because it was needed to spend every available Tacair relevant procurement appropriations dollar on the F-35 program.

Utter garbage, and I know fully well that you know it is too.
Please don't wade into these topics with such tripe in future as it borders on a derail.

Shep, that is your view, as I and everyone else here have ours.

Believe me though, I'm not cheering over this situation we find ourselves. To the contrary, it probably pains me more than most here. History though is unfortunately confirming that all available USAF procurement appropriations (with indefinite shrinking buying power going forward) will need to go towards F-35A procurements and accelerated R&D. This was needed starting in FY10 for example, by cutting FY10 F-22 procurement funds (something else in Procurement budget, valued at $3-4 billion would have otherwise been cut accordingly). This is the reality under the stay the course F-35 priority and protocol, for good or bad (depending on how one interprets it).

Geo- is it not possible, if not likely the 22 was capped due to the fact the mil saw no NEED for more than 187. The pres & secdef had been trying to kill the program for several years prior to the final nail. Could this actually be bacause they saw the writing on the wall? They do have info that us meer mortals are not privy too.

Additionally, is it impossible for you to understand the cost of operating a fleet of 22s was significantly higher than the alternatives, including spares, coatings and maintenance? Maybe, just maybe there was no need for an armory full of golden bullets (far beyond the pecerbial silver bullett). Seems to me a 1000 suped up corvettes would do a wonderful job compared to a 100 ferraris. And our leaders saw no need in spending the extra for the Ferrari?

geogen wrote:

Shep, that is your view, as I and everyone else here have ours.

Sure you can have your view but it is totally incorrect! Unless of course you can start showing us the proof that says otherwise.
I know you have a strange and frankly warped level of animosity toward the F-35 program but your taking it to absurd levels now by trying to claim it was the reason the F-22 production was capped at a lower than expected number.

Now, where's that proof to back up your claims that you're going to show us.... Laughing

(I know, it won't materialise) Wink

rivetspacer wrote:

Geo- is it not possible, if not likely the 22 was capped due to the fact the mil saw no NEED for more than 187. The pres & secdef had been trying to kill the program for several years prior to the final nail. Could this actually be bacause they saw the writing on the wall? They do have info that us meer mortals are not privy too.

Highest ranking officers of the USAF supported more F-22s, but were eventually ordered to shut up on that issue by the defence minister. So it looks like the USAF itself supported more Raptors, but politics didn't...

To be more specific I heard about the cancellation of F-22 when I watch this video. I post it below.

[Link pending approval];feature=related

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