Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

The F119 is optimized for high altitude and high speed flight regimes, whereas if they wanted an export model it would make more sense to export it with F136, an engine more inclined for low altitude operations. Your F135 or F136 powered F22 is not going to be optimized for flying at the same ceiling as the current F-22. If the U.S. was going to export F-22 then I say open up the F-22 lines and export the original batches. The new production airframes should have all the wonderful pilot interface, affordable stealth maintenance, and weapon cuing technologies found in the F-35 program. Basically make an F-22C for us to keep, rip out what's in the F-22A that cannot be exported. That would make more sense than to build a new version of F-22 solely for export.

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Earth to Madrat, Earth to Madrat, considering that the F135 and F136 are almost twice the weight of the F119, about 10" bigger diameter and about 4' longer, you might just as well propose to install a PW4000 or a GE90 because none of them would come anywhere near fitting in the engine bay of an F22.

tanknick22 wrote:

Corsair1963 wrote:

If, the F-22 was equipped with either F100's or F110's. How would it compare to the current F-22 with F119's? Would it loose its ability to "Super Cruise" for example..... Confused

current GE F110 engine and the PW F100 are around 24000lbs dry thurst and both with full afterburner are apporox at what the PW F119 is at on military power so by down grading the F22 to either engine the F22 would not be able to super cruise now here is something to think about a clean F15c at full afterburner its max speed is mach 2.5 with the PW F100 just think what i would be able to hit with PW F119

The point of the topic is not to down grade F-22's with F-100's or F-110's. The point is to show the disadvantage of a 5th Generation Design being so equipped. Which, makes a good comparison with PAK-FA fitted with S117's! Wink

So, Russia has alot riding on the success of the trouble future powerplant of the PAK-FA. Idea

Corsair - a twin- 33k lb GE or PW powered F-22Ex would have supercruised and could have indeed been a properly equipped, competitive and viable domestic/export option. Not sure where you're going with the S117 thing. That will supercruise as well. Add your choice smilely here.

geogen wrote:

Corsair - a twin- 33k lb GE or PW powered F-22Ex would have supercruised and could have indeed been a properly equipped, competitive and viable domestic/export option. Not sure where you're going with the S117 thing. That will supercruise as well. Add your choice smilely here.

Simple enough compare a F-22 with F100's or F110's. Then compare it to the current F-22 equipped with F119's. This in turn will give us an idea of the Performance of the Prototype PAK-FA.

Maybe, maybe not. Assume the empty weights are the same? Perhaps the aerodynamics/lift under some envelopes at least are superior with the 50? So perhaps pretty close? IMO, 'pretty close' and still super-cruising... woulda still been a fair and competitive/justified export option for the Raptor-Ex.

Do you guys realize you can't simply swap out engines and expect similar performance? IE - supercruise.

The SR-71 was tested with J75s that were 'modified' to produce more thrust due to the J58 not being ready. The J75s made almost 30K of thrust in their test ratings, but were still unable to push the Blackbird much more than MACH 2. Simply adding the J58 that the Blackbird was designed for allowed it to easily break MACH 3. For another example, look at how the J79 affected the F-16's performance, or how the Spey affected the British Phantoms top speed.

Putting 'supper F100 or F110' into the Raptor would likely have the same results. Without the high specific excess thrust, and low thrust lapse of the F119 the F-22's performance would be dramatically different. Perhaps MACH 1 without 'burners, but I highly doubt 1.5...

...and to 2nd what JT said, the F135/F136 would never fit in the same hole as the F119... It would be like trying to put F414s into the F404's holes.

TEG

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

Do you guys realize you can't simply swap out engines and expect similar performance? IE - supercruise.

The SR-71 was tested with J75s that were 'modified' to produce more thrust due to the J58 not being ready. The J75s made almost 30K of thrust in their test ratings, but were still unable to push the Blackbird much more than MACH 2. Simply adding the J58 that the Blackbird was designed for allowed it to easily break MACH 3. For another example, look at how the J79 affected the F-16's performance, or how the Spey affected the British Phantoms top speed.

Putting 'supper F100 or F110' into the Raptor would likely have the same results. Without the high specific excess thrust, and low thrust lapse of the F119 the F-22's performance would be dramatically different. Perhaps MACH 1 without 'burners, but I highly doubt 1.5...

...and to 2nd what JT said, the F135/F136 would never fit in the same hole as the F119... It would be like trying to put F414s into the F404's holes.

TEG

Exactly why I started the thread. So, to enlighten some on the performance of the PAK-FA with S117's.

Quote:

That_Engine_Guy wrote:
Do you guys realize you can't simply swap out engines and expect similar performance? IE - supercruise.

Corsair1963 responded

Quote:

Exactly why I started the thread. So, to enlighten some on the performance of the PAK-FA with S117's.

Sounds like a wrap to me! Wink

But I'm glad Corsair1963 started this thread. Thumb

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 equipped with P & W F100's or GE F110's?