Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

Boeing may be selling SLAM ER missiles to Turkey to put on their F-16s. If so, that will pay for SLAM ER / F-16 integration. (SLAM ER is now being integrated onto F-15s for South Korea.)

It is operational on F-18s in the Navy now. If the US Air Force shows interest, F-16 pilots will be able to use SLAM ERs to hit moving land targets, ship targets, flex from one target to another after launch, etc. SLAM ER is dual mode -- fire and forget with GPS and auto scene matching, or man-in-the-loop so the pilot can select the precise hit point real-time over the IR video link as the missile approaches the target. The Navy reports that SLAM ER is its most accurate weapon (best CEP). It has 150 mile range and can use a pre-planned target, or can be shot at a target of opportunity. Goes after a very wide set of targets from standoff range.

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I don't know...it weighs twice what a HARM weighs, and the HARM is awfully big for a Viper.

Besides, it's a Navy weapon Smile

Roscoe wrote:

I don't know...it weighs twice what a HARM weighs, and the HARM is awfully big for a Viper.

Yeah...but the SLAM-ER spec'd weight from Boeing is 1400 pounds (public Boeing specs here), which is still less than the 2000 pound munitions that can be hung off stations 3 and 7. There may be some performance trade-offs with it (CAT 3 manuevering issues) but if the Turks hang it off their Block 50's, it shouldn't pose an insurmountable problem.

SLAM-ER would be cool for USAF F-16 use.

Thing is that USAF has so many plates up in the air now to juggle ( funding ) that it would be difficult.

They had to do some major cost cutting things to get SLAM-ER to market. At one point it was way more expensive per unit than JASSM !!! Some where in the $600k region. Shocked

Now I think it is down to the sub $300k region. Still though you might as well use JASSM. It would be available and will do all the data linking retarget Jazz and has the ability to do similar tech terminal like SLAM-ER.

Of interest, there is a ( GPS/INS ) kit out now for Harpoon that would make it an excellent land striker. It wouldnt have the Digital IR thingy link that SLAM-ER does for terminal, But for a lot of targets it could ruin someones day.

Again though, USAF has so many ways of getting the job done. We'll see. Maybe there is a possibility for it.

Given SLAM-ERs shortish range, I wouldn't mind seeing a test done with the Army, to make it a mobile land lauched deal for Army operations. In the netcentric world, this could be a nice extra tool in the bag.

Still though, at $280-300k per target, it better be one incredible target. Yet one more high dollar PGM.

elp wrote:

Still though, at $280-300k per target, it better be one incredible target. Yet one more high dollar PGM.

I could see that coming down if Austrailia pulls its head out of its but and picks up the contract. That ought to pay for alot of the R&D money invested in the system and lower the overall unit cost.

Integration shouldnt be to hard, since all the Navy did was work with the existing Harpoon softwear.

Heck I think if we did it, Israel would jump all over the weapon to add to their Sufa, fleet. Ought to get them a little closer to that Iranian Strike capability they wanted but dont like to talk about. Twisted Evil

elp wrote:

Still though you might as well use JASSM. It would be available and will do all the data linking retarget Jazz and has the ability to do similar tech terminal like SLAM-ER.

JASSM has no video link or control link, and no man-in-the-loop option. Current version just hits fixed targets. Like JASSM, SLAM ER has ATA and GPS for autonomus hits on fixed targets. But SLAM ER also goes after moving ships, moving land targets, TOO targets, and does flex targetting -- where the pilot views initial target through missile video, and can choose to flex the missile to a 2nd target if desired.

zgare wrote:

elp wrote:

Still though you might as well use JASSM. It would be available and will do all the data linking retarget Jazz and has the ability to do similar tech terminal like SLAM-ER.

JASSM has no video link or control link, and no man-in-the-loop option. Current version just hits fixed targets. Like JASSM, SLAM ER has ATA and GPS for autonomus hits on fixed targets. But SLAM ER also goes after moving ships, moving land targets, TOO targets, and does flex targetting -- where the pilot views initial target through missile video, and can choose to flex the missile to a 2nd target if desired.

Yes of course. The last part of my statement was wrong on the terminal stuff. However they are working on retargeting JASSM in flight... Well the ones that don't fail anyway. Twisted Evil

And at least for fixed targets provides more range.

The F-16 is more than capable of carrying the SLAM-ER. The F-16 is small, but surprisingly it can carry heavier loads than the F/A-18. Plus the SLAM-ER would offer great capability to the Falcon, and it should be intergrated.

TuAF has ordered 50 SLAM-ER missiles to be used on F-16s...There was a proposal to co-produce lighter(2500lb) Popeye-II in Turkey for F-16s but later this proposal has been dropped from the table. One reason might be the Popeye-I version(3000lb) was already integrated on F-4E/2020 Terminators and around 100 missile were in the inventory...Popeye-II did not offer much over Popeye-I...TuAF has decided to go with SLAM-ER since it offers new generation technologies(ATA guidance, moving targets, data links, 150mile range etc)...I think SLAM-ER will be good fit for F-16s because of its size, range, technologies etc....

Roscoe wrote:

I don't know...it weighs twice what a HARM weighs, and the HARM is awfully big for a Viper.

Besides, it's a Navy weapon Smile

Actually, the HARM is rather light at only 750 lbs. Stations 3 and 7 are 9G to 2,500 lbs. and 5.5G to 3,500 lbs. At any rate, why carry a SLAM-ER when you can lug a JASSM, better known as the jism?

The datalink in SLAM ER requires the AWW-13 pod. Without the datalink, the targeting update features will not work, nor would it be able to attack moving targets. That pod will probably go on centerline, so there's a large possibility that no chin pods could be carried along with it. That may not really be an issue since the missiles will load on 3 and 7. If you have tanks on 4 and 6, there's no room for any more A-G weapons and no need for any targeting pods. OTOH, there's nothing that says the launch ship has to be carrying a pod -- the SLAM ER can be controlled by a pod on another aircraft.

The F-16 (except Block 60) requires the Harpoon Interface Adapter Kit to talk to the Harpoon. SLAM ER uses a 1553 interface, so there is really little lift from Harpoon when it comes to integrating the SLAM ER. Furthermore, the SLAM ER interface was developed in the early days of the 1553, so the standard 1553 interface (i.e., that of JDAM, JSOW and WCMD) is substantially different from that of SLAM ER. Add the cost of also integrating the AWW-13 and the integration is anything but simple.

idesof wrote:

Actually, the HARM is rather light at only 750 lbs. Stations 3 and 7 are 9G to 2,500 lbs. and 5.5G to 3,500 lbs. At any rate, why carry a SLAM-ER when you can lug a JASSM, better known as the jism?

Where did you get the station limits from?

Bermuda wrote:

idesof wrote:

Actually, the HARM is rather light at only 750 lbs. Stations 3 and 7 are 9G to 2,500 lbs. and 5.5G to 3,500 lbs. At any rate, why carry a SLAM-ER when you can lug a JASSM, better known as the jism?

Where did you get the station limits from?

Dozens if not hundreds of books have published these limits, but most trustworthy of all would the Jane's All the World's Aircraft. Right now, I can remember off the top of my head, limits are: Stations 1 and 9, 450 lbs. to 9G; stations 2 and 8, 750 lbs. to 5.5G and 450 lbs. to 9G; stations 3 and 7, 3,500 lbs. to 5.5G and 2,500 lbs. to 9G; stations 4 and 6, 4,500 lbs. to 5.5G and 2,500 lbs. to 9G; and station 5 to 2,200 to 9G (if I remember correctly). Stations 5R and 5L are 1,000 lbs. to 5G and 500 lbs. to 9G, again, if memory serves.

Here's a question for y'all: anyone know of a store other than a Sidewinder, Amraam or other AAM ever being carried on stations 2 and 8? I know telemetry pods are carried all the time, too, but I'm talking about, say, an AG store. Also, anyone know of anything other than a sensor lugged under 5L or 5R? Anyone ever thought of maybe sticking a couple of AMRAAMs under there? Or a jamming pod, freeing station 5 for a tank? Speaking of station 5, is it ever used for anything other than a tank or jammer or recon pod or, briefly, a GAU-8?

idesof wrote:

Bermuda wrote:

Where did you get the station limits from?

Dozens if not hundreds of books have published these limits, but most trustworthy of all would the Jane's All the World's Aircraft. Right now, I can remember off the top of my head, limits are: Stations 1 and 9, 450 lbs. to 9G; stations 2 and 8, 750 lbs. to 5.5G and 450 lbs. to 9G; stations 3 and 7, 3,500 lbs. to 5.5G and 2,500 lbs. to 9G; stations 4 and 6, 4,500 lbs. to 5.5G and 2,500 lbs. to 9G; and station 5 to 2,200 to 9G (if I remember correctly). Stations 5R and 5L are 1,000 lbs. to 5G and 500 lbs. to 9G, again, if memory serves.

Thanks, local library does not have Jane's ATWA, I have ordered an older one thru ILL.

idesof wrote:

Here's a question for y'all: anyone know of a store other than a Sidewinder, Amraam or other AAM ever being carried on stations 2 and 8? I know telemetry pods are carried all the time, too, but I'm talking about, say, an AG store. Also, anyone know of anything other than a sensor lugged under 5L or 5R? Anyone ever thought of maybe sticking a couple of AMRAAMs under there? Or a jamming pod, freeing station 5 for a tank? Speaking of station 5, is it ever used for anything other than a tank or jammer or recon pod or, briefly, a GAU-8?

re: station 2/8 -> I have not found any.

re: station 5L/5R -> I think ECM pods are too long.

re: station 5 -> I have not found any either.

Pete

Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

SLAM ER Missile on F-16s?