Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Shut down the F-22 production a little early now, didn't we Shocked

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Are you being vague on purpose?

Why don't you address that to your congressman or senator? I don't think too many people who frequent this forum are policy makers in DC.

It is a prototype. No production engine, radar, avionics, or airframe to speak of. The SU-35, SU-47, and MiG 1.44 all flew and none are in production. Time will tell... I give them props for finally getting it in the air, but this is their first attempt at stealth. I am assuming the tail surfaces are small due reliance on TVC for manouvering. Sure hope the system is reliable.

looks like a three way cross between F-22, 23, and 35. Or maybe the X-02 thing from Ace Combat. So this makes the third "5th Gen Prototype" to fly since the raptor....

I was simply making a statment that other contries are making 5th gen aircraft and that the us is blind if it thinks in war to come we wont face them. lets see the last time we faced russian aircraft was every war since korea!!. Doh

Other countries?? The T-50 has alot to prove, and no other country has proven stealth to date let alone built one. You assume too much. Stealth is more than just shape. I will leave it at that. Keep reading kid. You have alot to learn.

cywolf32 wrote:

Other countries?? The T-50 has alot to prove, and no other country has proven stealth to date let alone built one.

Another point is that, it is easier to design a stealth aircraft and a completely different situation trying to build one in a production environment.
During the summer, the chief of the Russian Air Force said this plane was not the direct competitor to the F-22. That this plane was designed to close the technical gap between the other European fighters and the current Russian fighters. That the direct competitor to the F-22 is still being designed. Now they say it is, I wonder which is it?

medicdwpa wrote:

Shut down the F-22 production a little early now, didn't we Shocked

Of course, anyone with half a brain already knows this. I personally don't think we need a Russian prototype's maiden flight to validate this assertion.

That said, it'll be interesting to see if F-22 opponents will continue to use the ol' "cold war relic" excuse to justify capping the F-22's production run. The F-22 is supposed to be the USAF's mainstay air dominance platform for the next ~20-30 years. If the T-50 (such as it is) is flying today, what will the Russians, or the Indians, or the Chinese for that matter, have in the air 10 years from now??

cywolf32 wrote:

It is a prototype. No production engine, radar, avionics, or airframe to speak of.

Sure... just like the Berkut, it may be a dead end... -OR-... Like you said, time will tell.

cywolf32 wrote:

I am assuming the tail surfaces are small due reliance on TVC for manouvering

The entire tails move, à la the Widow's ruddervators. Kinda odd, actually. It effectively has four stabs back there.

cywolf32 wrote:

Stealth is more than just shape.

Yes, but proper shaping is still a major factor in stealth design... and to my eyes the T-50 looks like a quasi-serious attempt at RCS reduction (at least from the frontal aspect). They still have a ways to go, but at least it's a better attempt than the lame duck Berkut.

IF they can manage an RCS somewhere between the F-35 and the Eurocanards, IF they can make the advanced materials work (RAM, metallurgy, composites), IF they can improve reliability and QC (esp. with the engines), IF they can produce a decent AESA capable of LPI, IF it can hold its own with the West performance-wise (dynamics, supercruise, range), and IF they can fund all this, then they might just have themselves a serious player in the gen. 5 "cold war."

Lotsa "IF's," to be sure. Wink

cywolf32 wrote:

Other countries?? The T-50 has alot to prove, and no other country has proven stealth to date let alone built one. You assume too much. Stealth is more than just shape. I will leave it at that. Keep reading kid. You have alot to learn.

My young Padwan Learner, maybe one day you will learn the ways of the force.

Look at how long it took from first flight of every other stealth platform from start to finish. We have a little time to say the least.

Why "T-50"? Will this become "SU-50" when it becomes operational?

darkvarkguy wrote:

Why "T-50"? Will this become "SU-50" when it becomes operational?

Maybe T for Terminator? hehe, all joking aside, They are far from a production piece right now, Russia is a joke as far as i'm concerned. Cool

Sukhoi doesn't operate like that. For example, the T-10 prototype became the Su-27 Flanker. Unlike us with Y or X designations before our actual number of the airframe, they seem to separate prototypes and experimental airframes from actual production models. In a way, they don't waste designations I guess.

Well, here it is; some people thought the day will never come. The T-50!!! Others thought that our F-22 wouldnt have a real modern adversary, soon... Men, we cant underestimate the Russians! Ok I know, its just to early to assume anything, but a fact its out there: a russian 5th gen. fighter flew yesterday. Another interesting fact; India is willing to help in the production of this jet; so I hope our goverment takes yesterday flight as what it is: the posibility that the russians take the T-50 to the production line and start selling it to rogue states, to our enemys, and to those who until now havent dare to declare themselves as our enemies......

calel wrote:

Well, here it is; some people thought the day will never come. The T-50!!! Others thought that our F-22 wouldnt have a real modern adversary, soon... Men, we cant underestimate the Russians! Ok I know, its just to early to assume anything, but a fact its out there: a russian 5th gen. fighter flew yesterday. Another interesting fact; India is willing to help in the production of this jet; so I hope our goverment takes yesterday flight as what it is: the posibility that the russians take the T-50 to the production line and start selling it to rogue states, to our enemys, and to those who until now havent dare to declare themselves as our enemies......

Don't worry, SecDef Gates has it under control. The new turboprop light attack aircraft will be able to handle the Flaptors when the time comes.

BTW, I think the turboprop light attacks are a good idea for Afghanistan and Iraq, but won't survive 5 seconds against a real fighter.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Russian Stealth Fighter and premature shutdown of F-22