Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

shep1978 wrote:

Scorpion82 wrote:

You don't understand what it's all about, but I don't care to explain because you don't want to hear it anyway.

Oh quite wrong, I understand exactly what it's about. It is about anti F-35 'critics' desperate to make a story out of nothing. Critics who don't know the facts and are therefore coming off looking pretty foolish when confronted with this statement by those who DO KNOW infinately more than them about the situation:

"the UK currently has the data needed at this stage of the programme"

Give it up pal, your making a fool out of yourself banging on about nothing.

Sorry but you understand nothing. The UK might have what it needs now, that doesn't mean they will receive the source codes demanded later on and the US has already made it clear that they won't release all source codes. Wether they will release sufficient source codes remains yet to be seen. Sure the UK will be able to operate the aircraft without source codes, but it will be reliant on the US for upgrades and that's where the UK wants a certain souvereignity. If the US doesn't allow that now the british were fauled by the last US government as the transmission of relevant source codes was a must meet condition to commit for the PSFD phase. As simple as that.

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Scorpion82 wrote:

Sorry but you understand nothing. The UK might have what it needs now, that doesn't mean they will receive the source codes demanded later on and the US has already made it clear that they won't release all source codes. Wether they will release sufficient source codes remains yet to be seen. Sure the UK will be able to operate the aircraft without source codes, but it will be reliant on the US for upgrades and that's where the UK wants a certain souvereignity. If the US doesn't allow that now the british were fauled by the last US government as the transmission of relevant source codes was a must meet condition to commit for the PSFD phase. As simple as that.

I understand it totally unlike you; we the UK have everything we need at this stage of the program. Now, you might have a point if we didn't ever get that source code but as it is at this stage of the program we have everything we need. You are obviously hoping and wishing for source code to be an issue but it is not at the moment as has been stated over and over and over and over and over again by our people.
To argue otherwise makes you look immensly stupid and extremely troll-like to all that can comprehend what they read.

Just to note we in the UK as i've already mentioned do not have source code to our Apache's yet that is a non issue. You really need to stop being so incedibly biased. C-130J, C-17 , AIM-120 and Trident all fall in the same catagory as Apache too but only outrage about the F-35 source code I notice... Laughing

Give it up.

shep1978 wrote:

I understand it totally unlike you; we the UK have everything we need at this stage of the program. Now, you might have a point if we didn't ever get that source code but as it is at this stage of the program we have everything we need. You are obviously hoping and wishing for source code to be an issue but it is not at the moment as has been stated over and over and over and over and over again by our people.
To argue otherwise makes you look immensly stupid and extremely troll-like to all that can comprehend what they read.

Just to note we in the UK as i've already mentioned do not have source code to our Apache's yet that is a non issue. You really need to stop being so incedibly biased. C-130J, C-17 , AIM-120 and Trident all fall in the same catagory as Apache too but only outrage about the F-35 source code I notice... Laughing

Give it up.

I give up nothing, just because you ignorant chap are incapble to get the point I won't shut up to your pleasure.
If you would actually bother to comprehend what other people say you might get behint it, but you don't and instead continue with your meaningless brabbling.

This has nothing to do with bias, anti critics or hoping for anything. And the situation isn't compareable to the purchase of the C-130J, C-17, AIM-120 or whatever US equipment the UK procured before, because all of this equipment is directly purchased off the shelve. In the case of the JSF programme the UK is a partner, not someone, but the oldest, largest and sole tier 1 partner. They are involved in the development and manufacturing processes and spent quite some money for their involvment. It's just understandable that they aren't going to accept as being treated like a foreign purchaser who hasn't contributed anything to the programme so your comparison is moot to say the least. Their commitment to the PSFD phase was made on base of the US government's promise to release the source codes required to maintain and upgrade the UK's F-35 fleet independently from the US. It's fine that they have what they need now, but that doesn't answer the question wether they'll get what they were promised to get before and all those reports doesn't sound to encouraging. If it turns out that the UK will finally get what they are asked for the better, if not the US would have fooled them.

"JSF is progressing well and the UK currently has the JSF data needed at this stage of the programme, and is confident that in future we will continue to receive the data needed to ensure that our requirements for Operational Sovereignty will be met.

This remains the basis of the agreements reached with the US in 2006. " -
Source: UK Ministry of Defence; issued Dec. 1, 2009

Stop being a clown.

Just been reading about Tiffie vs F-35 in the F-35 section of the forum - seems to be a parrallel discussion going on Smile

Good point fasteagle, lets get back to the Typhoon topic.

Latest news is Typhoon got a sound thrashing over in the Al Dahfra excersises. Truck loads of of excuses are being rolled out for the poor performance against the Rafale with promisises by highly questionable pro-Typhoon journalists (undoubtable on the BAE payroll in my opinion) that "the truth will be revealed" but at the moment it does seem Typhoon is nothing like as impressive as it was made out to be and Rafale a far better performer than made out to be.

A weak excuse of an email has been sent by the Eurofighter GmbH trying to deny/excuse away the result but it'd be a complete double standard to believe them, afterall, anything from LM, Boeing or the USAF is an outright lie so the same applies here Laughing

All in all it's a very interesting and rather amusing story worth watching as it unfolds...

shep1978 wrote:

Good point fasteagle, lets get back to the Typhoon topic.

Latest news is Typhoon got a sound thrashing over in the Al Dahfra excersises. Truck loads of of excuses are being rolled out for the poor performance against the Rafale with promisises by highly questionable pro-Typhoon journalists (undoubtable on the BAE payroll in my opinion) that "the truth will be revealed" but at the moment it does seem Typhoon is nothing like as impressive as it was made out to be and Rafale a far better performer than made out to be.

A weak excuse of an email has been sent by the Eurofighter GmbH trying to deny/excuse away the result but it'd be a complete double standard to believe them, afterall, anything from LM, Boeing or the USAF is an outright lie so the same applies here Laughing

All in all it's a very interesting and rather amusing story worth watching as it unfolds...

So you admit you are admitting and spreading outright lies? Laughing

And what exactly has Rafale vs Typhoon do to with the discussion about Typhoon and F-35?

Scorpion82 wrote:

So you admit you are admitting and spreading outright lies? Laughing

And what exactly has Rafale vs Typhoon do to with the discussion about Typhoon and F-35?

LOL

Do you follow me round the forums trying to pick holes in my posts, sure feels that way but no, I have made no admission of telling tall tales, merely repeating what i've read elsewhere.
Oh BTW, you must have slipped on your nit picking game because this is not the Typhoon vs F-35 thread, thats up in the F-35 forum section... Laughing

shep1978 wrote:

LOL

Do you follow me round the forums trying to pick holes in my posts, sure feels that way but no, I have made no admission of telling tall tales, merely repeating what i've read elsewhere.
Oh BTW, you must have slipped on your nit picking game because this is not the Typhoon vs F-35 thread, thats up in the F-35 forum section... Laughing

I could say the same about you :-p. You are right this isn't the Eurofighter vs F-35 topic my bad, but funny enough it ended up to be something like that and you contributed quite a lot to that.

Scorpion82 wrote:

You are right this isn't the Eurofighter vs F-35 topic my bad, but funny enough it ended up to be something like that and you contributed quite a lot to that.

Ok lets see, start with post #1 in which topic starter Peter G asks the question "Well the Typhoon is Europe's answer. How do you think it compares with it's rivals?"
I than replied on post #4 explaining that whilst typhoon compares well to other 4th gen fighters I thought it was an unwise buy for the UK and not fit for high threat conflicts.
Lo and behold post #5 you are there again within an hour or so rebutting my posts in an unhappy manner full of sarcasm as i'd seemingly insulted your favourite fighter by pointing out its shortcomings. We had a few back and forth posts and that was that.
Then we had the F-35 source code non-story that you got upset over after being shown official statements showing that it was nonsense.

Anyway, all in all I don't think it was unfair to compare the F-35 to the Typhoon especially considering the thread was started by someone wanting to know how it compares with it's rivals. So for you to say I contributed quite a lot to that, as in implying that I caused a massive derail of the thread is really rather silly as you have contributed just as much, read back through and see for yourself, post #1 would be a good starting point....

shep1978 wrote:

I than replied on post #4 explaining that whilst typhoon compares well to other 4th gen fighters I thought it was an unwise buy for the UK and not fit for high threat conflicts.

Lo and behold post #5 you are there again within an hour or so rebutting my posts in an unhappy manner full of sarcasm as i'd seemingly insulted your favourite fighter by pointing out its shortcomings. We had a few back and forth posts and that was that.

That is the simplified version leaving out the relevant details. I was explaining to you the status of potential enemies and that the Typhoon is actually not an entirely useless asset as you appear to think it is.

Quote:

Then we had the F-35 source code non-story that you got upset over after being shown official statements showing that it was nonsense.

I didn't got upset and explicitely said:
"Wether they will release sufficient source codes remains yet to be seen...If the US doesn't allow

And being confident as claimed in the press release is fine, but is no guarantee that it will happen in the end. I haven't said it won't happen, but explained the problems if it doesn't happen and given the complaints over the years one wonders from where they come and wether it must be all lies or has a certain substance.

Quote:

Anyway, all in all I don't think it was unfair to compare the F-35 to the Typhoon especially considering the thread was started by someone wanting to know how it compares with it's rivals. So for you to say I contributed quite a lot to that, as in implying that I caused a massive derail of the thread is really rather silly as you have contributed just as much, read back through and see for yourself, post #1 would be a good starting point....

It was just a hint at that "this is not the Eurofighter vs F-35 thread", which is indeed true, though matters concerning both aircraft including comparisons in some fields were included. So in the end it turned out to be a bit a F-35/Eurofighter topic being discussed. I didn't said I haven't contributed to that.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Eurofighter Typhoon