Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

I wonder what Raptor pilots think about the visual clues the aircraft gives off when it's braking. Every F-22 pic above shows vortices from the vertical tail when braking. I know I wouldn't want anything about the aircraft I was flying giving away it's energy state.

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johnwill wrote:

em745,

Good photos, thanks for posting. In the top photo, looks to me like the engines are in afterburner, so why the speedbrake use?

<trim>

Good eye, johnwill, and brings another question: I have been told by Block 40 pilots that during aerial refueling they would use a higher power setting than needed and adjust positioning with speedbrakes as it gave them better control.

I'm wondering if the F-22 needs added drag to hold station on the tanker?
fisk

Neno wrote:

If i can remember correctly the YF-22 featured a dorsal air-brake. So LM probably considered them useless wheight.

LM's YF-22 had a dorsal speed brake, and disgarded it in favor of what Northrop used on the YF-23.

Nice shots em745

Any Raptors pictures in full brake after touchdown?

Here's a view of all FCS surfaces going through prefight checks. Amazing that all the surfaces can be controlled independently of each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NuxClc7 ... re=related
fisk

Lightndattic wrote:

I wonder what Raptor pilots think about the visual clues the aircraft gives off when it's braking. Every F-22 pic above shows vortices from the vertical tail when braking. I know I wouldn't want anything about the aircraft I was flying giving away it's energy state.

Cons are based on atmospherics. If he did the same thing at Nellis in the summer you prolly wouldn't see 'em. Besides....if the other guy gets close enough to see your cons then you let him get too close. Wink

fiskerwad wrote:

I have been told by Block 40 pilots that during aerial refueling they would use a higher power setting than needed and adjust positioning with speedbrakes as it gave them better control.

I'm wondering if the F-22 needs added drag to hold station on the tanker?
fisk

That technique was developed during YF-16 flight test. The speedbrake caused no pitch trim change, so it was the ideal way to quickly adjust fore and aft position while approaching and maintaining position on the boom. They approached the boom with half speedbrake deployed, then could rapidly adjust their position by flicking the brake open or closed a small amount. Using the engine to do that was more difficult due to the relatively slow response of the engine.

"BTW, the hornet's speed brake works the other way around (the rudders move inwards instead of the outwards movement on the raptor)."

This is simply my curiosity speaking, but why would a Hornet be using speed brakes during the Catapult Launch onboard a carrier? Doesn't that seem slightly counter productive. I've spent some time assigned to wok with a Super Hornet squadron, and we all heard stories about how close the Hornet could come to maxing out on its MTOW in the wrong conditions. It seems like using the brakes in that situation mught be a bit risky...but then again, I could be completely wrong. Shrug

strykerxo wrote:

Does anyone have photos of the F-22 or the SuperBug landing with full air-brakes deployed?

Does the SH use the air-brake function when landing on runway?

There is probably only marginal gain from air-brake function because ailerons, flaps and rudders are anyway (almost) completely deflected during ground roll. Pulling back the stick slows down more, I think...

npeterman18 wrote:

This is simply my curiosity speaking, but why would a Hornet be using speed brakes during the Catapult Launch onboard a carrier? Doesn't that seem slightly counter productive. I've spent some time assigned to wok with a Super Hornet squadron, and we all heard stories about how close the Hornet could come to maxing out on its MTOW in the wrong conditions. It seems like using the brakes in that situation mught be a bit risky...but then again, I could be completely wrong. Shrug

Like I already mentioned a few lines above those that you quoted:

DeepSpace wrote:

Because of the location of the speed brakes on the hornet (the rudders as mentioned), they use it for takeoffs from carriers as well (also for ground takeoffs as well), as it creates a nose-up pitch.

nose-up pitch = greater AOA = more lift

That is what I get for not reading things fully, Embarassed

npeterman18 wrote:

That is what I get for not reading things fully, Embarassed

Not to worry, it happens to the best of us here. Cheers

Are there any other aircraft out there that use this braking method as well?

Well, I assume that single tailed aircraft could not use this style of breaking without the deflection of the rudder imparting some sort of directional force on the aircraft. However, I believe I read that the Gripen and the Rafale use a form of braking like this using their canards, does anyone know if that is the case?

I have seen pictures of the Gripen on landing with full canard deflection when slowing and assumed that was used for a braking effect.

Gripen puts its canards full nose down to brake when on the ground. IIRC they turn more at the ground than in the air to enhance drag. Gripen also has conventional air brakes.

Mechanic wrote:

Gripen puts its canards full nose down to brake when on the ground. IIRC they turn more at the ground than in the air to enhance drag. Gripen also has conventional air brakes.

True... Also, the Rafale doesn't have a conventional speed brake, and only uses its' canard on the ground. Of course it doesn't have flaps as well (as most delta wing aircraft, as flaps will create too much nose-down pitch).

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 rudder(s) movement