Forum: Technology

Cool display, does it work? During WW2 we would set up cardboard displays of tanks and trucks to through off enemy intelligence, but that doesn't look like cardboard...

There is still a big question regarding the superiority of S-300 system. I will translate some posts from [Link pending approval] aviation forums, where Russian Air Force MI-8 SMV EW chopper operator describes what happened during last joint Russian Air Force - Air Defence excercises in Kapustin Yar, Ashuluk training facility:

[url][Link pending approval];highlight=%C0%F8%F3%EB%F3%EA[/url]

"The priority number one was the jamming of S-300 and S-400 systems, TORs and BUKs managed to fire from the third attempt - we simply stopped tracking their [Link pending approval];

"Why did you receive orders to move your chopper away from S-300 sites? To reduce the jamming effect on these SAMs? Exactly. Moreover, they ordered to weak the strengh of our jamming [Link pending approval];

"I have been participating in this exercise for three years in a row. For these three years our Air-Defence specialists have not understood that they are encountering NOT A NOISE jamming".

"For third year in a row our SAM operators are put into a loosers position. They could think of something new, instead of upgrading older SAMs. I liked how the S-400 worked this time- managed to bypass frequency jamming easily, but all other, including S-300 showed an unsatisfactory performance".

You see what is the actual "around-real" situation, taking into consideration that MI-8 SMV EW Chopper, speaking softly, is a "bit less sophisticated" EW tool than U. S. EA-18G Growler aircraft.

The fact of the matter is that the chief constructor of the S-400 system, Lemanski died of heart attack there at the testing range. According to the same witness, it was after a failure of the system to function in the initial mock launches.

I know I shouldn't laugh but [Link pending approval]

Anyway, anymore news on the PAK-FA? Last I heard the engines were still in a develpment with alot of problems to boot but since then I've heard nothing,
I'm guessing it isn't going to be flying anytime this year though at this rate, the whole project has been the running joke of the aviation industry for the last few years it seems.

Also I read it's going to have 360 degress field of view radar system on it for situational awareness whioch leads me to ask if anyone else here shares my opinion that they have taken that route because they cannot create an AN/ALR-94 type system and therefore are trying the brute force (but stand out like a sore thumb) method as oppossed to the F-22's silent an unseen method.

With regards to AN/ALR-94, generally, the gap in the whole EW business is among the most significant ones.

The first and last line of defense of the Russians (and before that the Soviets) is GRU disinformation, dog and pony shows, etc. You believe it only when you see it working for real confirmed by independent experts or in real conflict.

For example, an AESA front panel, put up in a show is nothing more than an AESA panel designed for a show. They can still be as far away from solving critical AESA issues as without such a panel.

While it is true that the first prototype and maybe others will be powered by the article 117S of the Su-35, the production variant is said to use the new AL-41F1.

The AL-41F1 takes this engine as a base, but is a new version, much like the F135 is a further development of the F119.

I pretty much agree with what you're syaing there, I have seen the near hysteria over on other forums regarding the AESA radar shown at MAKS-2009 and was awestruck how people were fawing over it, the thing probably doesn't even work and is probably a mock up and not even representitive of a production radar but yeah we all know how fanboys will swallow up anything without questioning the Russians.

I keep hearing alot about various different band radar systems fitted to the PAK-FA and it really does seem like the thing is going to be what I would term 'a flying lighthouse' That is it will be telling just about everyone where it is simply from the relience on radar and not ESM. It seems like a really stupid way of going about building whats meant to be a stealth fighter when you're covering it in systems that are emitting left right and centre. I'm fairly certain this is the very worst way to go about building a so called 'stealth fighter' but as always would certainly welcome others opinion on this matter.

But what is the AL-41F? Ultimately, we're still just talking about an evolved version of the AL-31F. The AL-41F was not a new-centerline engine, just as the "Item 117" is not a new-centerline engine. It's an AL-31F core with a new low spool.

According to press releases from Russia, the Russian government is not even guaranteeing that the production engine contract would go to NPO Saturn (which produced the prototype AL-41F as well as the Item 117 engines). They appear to be intent on keeping their options open between Saturn, and MMPP Salyut which has been developing the AL-31F-M3 (yes, another AL-31F derivative).
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ntest.html

Which was exactly my point before. The F119 represents a generational shift in engine technology over the F100 and F110 which preceded it - and the F135 builds upon that foundation. But you don't get to F119 levels of performance by tweaking an F100, or AL-31F. Development cycles for jet engine technology are usually around 50% longer than for the airframe. The Russians just haven't been investing in this technology during the past decade - and they don't appear to have deep enough pockets to do so now.

If and when the PAK-FA ever flies, it's going to be essentially an Su-35 wrapped in a new skin. Same engines, same electronics. The Russians would be happy if they mastered even some measure of reduced radar cross section in the bargain. But performance wise, this is not going to be any great leap forward.

The radar seems to be a new design as well and I think you underestimate the russian efforts in that direction.

To my understanding the AL-41F was a new design not a souped up AL-31F. As said it was a 175 kN class engine.

You can read the same details in Jane's Aero Engines. The AL-41F is an AL-31F core with a new low spool.

Jet engine technology requires decades of investment to advance the state of the art. The Russians simply haven't made that investment, and even if they finally sorted out their financial disarray and started investing now, they would still have more than twenty years of catching up to do.

You need to be able to see past the hype. I am sure the Russian Air Force has no illusions about what the PAK-FA will ultimately offer. They are not looking for a direct rival to the F-22, and any suggestion that they are is laughable. They are looking to bridge perhaps 80% of the gap in low observables technology, and up to 50% of the gap in radar and electronics (and none of the gap in performance). If they can do that they would be doing exceedingly well. Of course, I am not convinced that they can even achieve that at their current funding levels.