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asiatrails
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 12:30 AM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 30, 2005 - 03:11 AM
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That_Engine_Guy wrote:
skyhigh wrote:
I wonder why there are no photos of the Silent Eagle's engine nozzles? Maybe they're either a radically different shape, have TVC or both?
One of the photos from the front actually looked like light shining through the engine bays, which would indicate there weren't even engines in that "example" or because there are just plain ole' PW-220s or PW-229s installed...
Tinito_16 wrote:
If they really have something, it figures the nozzles would be a different shape. Seems round holes are really bad for stealth, you gotta have something with straight lines.
Like the LOAN developed for the F100 series engines for reduced signature? (not thrust-vector)
Low- Observable Axisymmetrical Nozzle
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article20.html
...and yes it was 'axisymmetrical' meaning "along one axis" not 'asymmetrical' as in "along any axis"
PW's thrust-vector nozzle was known as the P/YBBN, and did not have "stealth" features.
Pitch/ Yaw Balanced Beam Nozzle
http://www.f-16.net/gallery_item46797.html
Now they may be able to integrate technologies from BOTH the LOAN and P/YBBN into one nozzle; Who should we send the bill too?
The USAF obviously didn't deem either nozzle beneficial enough to the aircraft (Viper and/or Eagle) to fund the projects past prototypes.
I must admit though, it would be a great to see hanging on the back of a PW-229 or PW-232!
Keep 'em flyin'
TEG
No, they will put F110-GE-129's in there, maybe even -132's.
now lets have a and watch this thread take off |
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Posted: Jun 19, 2013 - 3:42 PM
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F-16.net Sponsor
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JetTest
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 12:51 AM
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| -129 or -132 is almost as unlikely as the -232. USAF flight-tested -129's in the F15 several years ago, when there was still the possibility of USAF F15 procurement, and declined to buy, and the only operators to buy them are evidently unhappy with the configuration, as one (Korea) has already switched back to the -229. |
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That_Engine_Guy
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 02:23 AM
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Elite 2K

Joined: Dec 14, 2005 - 05:03 AM
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asiatrails wrote:
No, they will put F110-GE-129's in there, maybe even -132's.
 now lets have a  and watch this thread take off
TEG |
_________________ [Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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asiatrails
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 04:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 30, 2005 - 03:11 AM
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JetTest wrote:
-129 or -132 is almost as unlikely as the -232. USAF flight-tested -129's in the F15 several years ago, when there was still the possibility of USAF F15 procurement, and declined to buy, and the only operators to buy them are evidently unhappy with the configuration, as one (Korea) has already switched back to the -229.
Not quite true, you need to read up on recent FMS reports for more information |
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That_Engine_Guy
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 11:22 AM
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Elite 2K

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That_Engine_Guy wrote:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/12/205_23156.html wrote:
04-25-2008 19:27
Korea to Buy 21 More F-15Ks From Boeing
By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter
South Korea's arms procurement agency Friday announced a contract to purchase 21 F-15K fighters from The Boeing Company of the United States.
Under the second-phase F-X deal, worth $2.3 billion, the American aircraft giant is to deliver the multi-role fighters to South Korea's Air Force between 2010 and 2012, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said.
South Korea had accepted Boeing's offer to provide one more aircraft to help the Korean Air Force replace an F-15K that crashed in 2006 as part of an offset deal, a DAPA spokesman said.
``Once deployed, the aircraft are expected to make up for the diminishing capabilities of the Air Force's aging fighter jets while also reinforcing our strategic deterrence following the transfer of the wartime operational control of South Korean troops,'' the spokesman said.
The F-X project aims to equip the Air Force with 120 advanced fighters by 2020 to replace its aging F-4 aircraft.
In 2002, Boeing's F-15 Eagle was selected for the 40-plane, $4.2 billion first phase of the F-X fighter modernization program.
The F-15K can fly air-to-ground, air-to-air and air-to-sea missions day or night in any weather. It has a 23,000-pound payload and can fly at a maximum speed of Mach 2.3 with a combat radius of 1,800 kilometers.
South Korea plans to open a bid for the next phase F-X projects aimed at purchasing stealth fighters in 2011.
Meanwhile, the DAPA selected Pratt & Whitney (P&W)'s F-100 engines to power the 21 F-15Ks under a $220 million contract, beating out F110 engines made by General Electric (GE), which won the first-phase contract for 88 engines.
P&W will deliver 46 engines to South Korea under a technology cooperation contract with Samsung Techwin, the spokesman said.
It is rare that an air force selects different engines to power one type of fighter.
gallantjung@koreatimes.co.kr
I read into this as "we're not liking the first 88 GE engines in our Eagles"
 TEG
EDIT: add this link for further reading on "GE in Shady Deal With Korean Arms Agency"
Quote:
General Electric (GE), which is supplying engines for South Korea's F-15K fighter program and looking for more work, has been allegedly paying tens of thousands of dollars to a U.S.-based program manager for the country's arms procurement agency.
Since 2003, the U.S. firm has allegedly given about $6,000 per month to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) manager based in Cincinnati, where GE's aircraft engines plant is located, a reliable source told The Korea Times.
DAPA officials confirmed that GE was paying the program manager, Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Oh Sang-seop. The payments began after GE won a $440-million contract to supply 88 F110-GE-129 engines for 40 twin-engine F-15Ks in 2002, beating out Pratt & Whitney (P&W) with its F100 model, they said.
GE has been giving the manager $5,800 per month under a five-year contract, they said.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/n ... 13480.html
I guess if you can't sell your motors; you can bribe someone to buy them?
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_________________ [Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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JetTest
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 01:14 PM
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| No Asia, I think you need to do the reasearch. Korea, Singapore and Saudi bought 129 (in that order). Korea has been flying for a few years now, Saudi has 2 repowered since last October, and Singapore is awaiting delivery (I believe). Korea has already switched back to PW, and the Saudi's are competing engines for their next F15 buy. Does not appear to be any "testimonials" on the F15/-129 package. |
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wysongj
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 08:51 PM
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JetTest
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Posted: Mar 24, 2009 - 09:44 PM
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| That would be because the only version of the F15 in production over the last few years have been -129 powered for Korea and Singapore. Any future sale would certainly include a competition for the engines, as Boeing is in the process of tooling back up to produce the latest sale of F15's, those being -229 powered for Korea. |
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asiatrails
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 12:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 30, 2005 - 03:11 AM
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JetTest wrote:
No Asia, I think you need to do the reasearch. Korea, Singapore and Saudi bought 129 (in that order). Korea has been flying for a few years now, Saudi has 2 repowered since last October, and Singapore is awaiting delivery (I believe). Korea has already switched back to PW, and the Saudi's are competing engines for their next F15 buy. Does not appear to be any "testimonials" on the F15/-129 package.
Sorry you have it backwards, Saudi is discarding the P&W's and installing GE -129 engines.
I believe that Korea stopped after the Col Ong issue was brought to light, watch for more sticky fingers to appear on both sides of the issue. |
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That_Engine_Guy
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 01:19 AM
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Elite 2K

Joined: Dec 14, 2005 - 05:03 AM
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asiatrails wrote:
I believe that Korea stopped after the Col Ong issue was brought to light, watch for more sticky fingers to appear on both sides of the issue.
Yes, but Singapore and Saudi agreed to GE-129s about the same time.
Makes one wonder what' GE's sales stragety consisted of?
Anyone watching GE in the stock market?
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/12/news/co ... kingviews/
Quote:
General Electric's credit rating has finally been cut. S&P has lowered the conglomerate's rating, which has been triple-A since 1956, to double-A-plus... ...The strength of the industrial business theoretically allowed the financial arm to raise debt more cheaply, allowing it to thrive. The downgrade guts this rationale.... ...There is one other rationale for keeping the two businesses together. GE may say it has an easier time selling turbines and jet engines if it can offer attractive financing to customers.
"Buy here, pay here" jet engines! just like a cheap used-car salesman... Don't forget the kick-back!
How about the GE CEO being accused of stock fraud?
Quote:
The complaint alleges that on January 23, 2009, GE's Chairman and CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, stated unequivocally that GE would maintain its quarterly $.31 per share dividend, having sufficient cash on hand and cash flow to achieve that goal. Then on February 27, 2009, GE suddenly announced it was cutting the dividend to $.10 per share. On the first trading day after the dividend reduction announcement, GE shares fell from $8.51 per share the previous trading day to close at $7.60 per share. The shares have continued to plummet, currently trading at $6.30 per share, an almost 30% plunge. During the Class Period, Mr. Immelt sold over 52,000 shares of GE stock at $11.10 per share and other officers of the Company sold over 380,000 shares at that same price. Mr. Immelt then repurchased 50,000 shares after the announcement at between $7.51 and $8.30 per share. As a result, Mr. Immelt and the other officers violated Sections 10(b) and 20(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 by issuing false and misleading statements or knowingly or recklessly failing to know of those statements, sold GE shares at inflated prices based on those statements.
Sounds like a stable company I'd want to be buying/financing engines from!
Keep 'em flyin'
TEG |
_________________ [Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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JetTest
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 02:08 AM
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Joined: Jul 04, 2007 - 01:22 AM
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| Asia, please read what I wrote. Saudi was the third customer to buy 129 for the F15, but that decision was made before Korea had much, if any, flying time to show how the configuration really works. Korea was so impressed (sarcasm) with it they went back to the -229 on their next buy. That should say alot about what they think about it, as they are the only customer to put any significant time in with it. |
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JetTest
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 02:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 04, 2007 - 01:22 AM
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| To clarify, the current Saudi 129 program is to repower jets at two bases. There will be an RFP, probably later this year, for 72 new jets. If they pick the F15 airframe it will be interesting to watch the engine competition. |
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FlightDreamz
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 02:31 AM
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To answer SkyHigh's earlier question it looks like the F-15SE's engines haven't been modified from standard F-15's at all.
<a href="http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk40/FlightDreamz/?action=view¤t=F-15SErearview.jpg" target="_blank"><img>[/img]</a>
Although I suppose a vectored thrust version could be an option if you have the ca$h! |
_________________ A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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biffbutkus
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 02:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 24, 2007 - 07:05 PM
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That_Engine_Guy wrote:
asiatrails wrote:
I believe that Korea stopped after the Col Ong issue was brought to light, watch for more sticky fingers to appear on both sides of the issue.
Yes, but Singapore and Saudi agreed to GE-129s about the same time.
Makes one wonder what' GE's sales stragety consisted of?
Anyone watching GE in the stock market?
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/12/news/co ... kingviews/
Quote:
General Electric's credit rating has finally been cut. S&P has lowered the conglomerate's rating, which has been triple-A since 1956, to double-A-plus... ...The strength of the industrial business theoretically allowed the financial arm to raise debt more cheaply, allowing it to thrive. The downgrade guts this rationale.... ...There is one other rationale for keeping the two businesses together. GE may say it has an easier time selling turbines and jet engines if it can offer attractive financing to customers.
"Buy here, pay here" jet engines!  just like a cheap used-car salesman... Don't forget the kick-back!
How about the GE CEO being accused of stock fraud?
Quote:
The complaint alleges that on January 23, 2009, GE's Chairman and CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, stated unequivocally that GE would maintain its quarterly $.31 per share dividend, having sufficient cash on hand and cash flow to achieve that goal. Then on February 27, 2009, GE suddenly announced it was cutting the dividend to $.10 per share. On the first trading day after the dividend reduction announcement, GE shares fell from $8.51 per share the previous trading day to close at $7.60 per share. The shares have continued to plummet, currently trading at $6.30 per share, an almost 30% plunge. During the Class Period, Mr. Immelt sold over 52,000 shares of GE stock at $11.10 per share and other officers of the Company sold over 380,000 shares at that same price. Mr. Immelt then repurchased 50,000 shares after the announcement at between $7.51 and $8.30 per share. As a result, Mr. Immelt and the other officers violated Sections 10(b) and 20(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 by issuing false and misleading statements or knowingly or recklessly failing to know of those statements, sold GE shares at inflated prices based on those statements.
Sounds like a stable company I'd want to be buying/financing engines from!
Keep 'em flyin'
TEG
GE has been one of the largest, most well rspected companies in the world for decades...I think your post is a real stretch. GE fighter engines have a had a solid reputation for years....I don't think that has always been the case with PW. |
_________________ USAF B52 ECM TECH '92-'97
Flight Sim In-Flight Technician
Charter Member Virtual Mile High Club
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That_Engine_Guy
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Posted: Mar 25, 2009 - 02:59 AM
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I wasn't talking about their engines... I know they are "okay"
What I'm getting at with my previous posts is how that GE has had some "shady" dealings of late.
Bribes with the Korean officials
CEOs who are under investigation for stock fraud
A company who's status has slipped in the S&P
A huge company that has hinted at a "break-up" then not
I must agree, the J79, J85, F110, etc have been great motors!
TEG |
_________________ [Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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