Forum: F-16 News

Bodizzle wrote:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article3266.html

The 13th FS out of Misawa is going to be taking the slot... I still don't get why they don't use the F-16s out of Osan or Kunsan.

Huh? The whole idea behind this is to augment the island when firepower leaves.

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The 13th FS out of Misawa is going to be taking the slot... I still don't get why they don't use the F-16s out of Osan or Kunsan.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm talking down to you, it isn't meant that way.

From what I've gathered on the 8th (Kunsan) and the 51st (Osan) are that they're both pegged as air-defense units, although they obviously fly a jet with a proven air-to-mud capacity, their pilots spend most of their time practicing A2A, not A2M. I can see the rationale, the 13th is an A2M Viper unit, although they're Wild Weasels, tank-plinking (yeah I know they're both obsolete terms, but Idgaff) should be more straightforward.

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Huh? The whole idea behind this is to augment the island when firepower leaves.

Korea's a peninsula btw, and Japan has a very capable "air force" in the JASDF

that's what they're doing, if the Sierra starts flying in either country, the US units can mutually support one another. There are plenty of units that can respond (the Raptors at Elmendorf come to mind). Either way, the USAF could fly missions from the Peninsula over Japan or from Japan over the Peninsula.

I dont know where you got the idea that the 8th at Kunsan and the 51st at Osan are pure air defense units they are NOT. Their primary mission is air to ground with Block 40 F-16CGs. They practice interdication and CAS alot and the occasional DACT missions against F-15s from Kadena and Navy assets out of Japan. US forces always augment the forces in Korea by either sending in F-16s from the states or even from Europe as well as F-15Es in recent years.

Sorry, Siesta, didn't gather 'enough' info....I should have figured they'd have both roles. I had wrong info (not Wikipedia this time) that both both the USFK units flew the F-15C--which would make them Air-Defense.

I realize that Viper units train in A2A and A2M

Again, sorry for the wrong info

Bodizzle wrote:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article3266.html

The 13th FS out of Misawa is going to be taking the slot... I still don't get why they don't use the F-16s out of Osan or Kunsan.

Perhaps the reason is to 'replace' the 'departing' Apache battalion with an additional deterrence asset - hence, maintaing the balance? By deduction, the existing F-16 units in Os/Ku therefore wouldn't compensate the loss in said deterrence value.. (i.e., would be at a net loss) makes sense.

My question however is: I thought the orginial press release noted the battalion was deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan? Now it is going to Colorado??

And I hope not too ignorant a Q, but also: would the battalion personnel alone be departing to Colorado, or with equipment as well?

Just curious too, if a Raptor/UAV squadron has ever relieved such an 'attack battalion'? Most likely in the near future, if not already..

I saw this happen many times in Korea. Anytime assests are scheduled to leave the KTO, other assets come in to maintain the balance. We've had additional squadrons come in because the Carrier Task Force was out of the area at times. We've had assets come in because of OS units TDY of off the peninsula.

As we primarily only post F16 information here, many don't realize it - but those of us that have been to the ROK multiple times or for long tours can attest. You will see F15, F15E, A10, F14, F18, A6, F117 and AC 130 units come for deployments - dependent upon what assets they are augmenting. Sometimes these units are at other "not so well known" bases like Kwang-Ju or Suwon.

The F16 may not be able to do the exact role of the Apache, but it is a combat asset that can maintain the balance.

Its not like the peninsula would have "0" Apaches.

I'd rather have Apaches taking out early warning radar sites than F-16's, unless they're cloaked with that super duper Israeli cyber warfare wizzamajig. Surprised

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I'd rather have Apaches taking out early warning radar sites than F-16's, unless they're cloaked with that super duper Israeli cyber warfare wizzamajig. Surprised

Even with the IDF technology, the Apache can do something the Viper can't--loiter in one exact place and wait--if I had a choice between having Longbows wipe out the radar sites or Vipers, I'd take the Longbows every time--they're sneaky enough to get in, blow the site, and RTB with a much lower chance of detection than the Vipers. I'd stick with the plan they used to open ODS, then let the Vipers go after the divisional and corps-level CPs.

Star & Stripes wrote:

13th Fighter Squadron S. Korea-bound

Misawa unit replacing Army helo battalion

By Vince Little and Franklin Fisher, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Monday, February 9, 2009

This time, the 13th Fighter Squadron is staying a little closer to home.

Air Force officials said the unit from Misawa Air Base, Japan, is gearing up for a six-month deployment to South Korea, where a dozen F-16 fighters and about 400 airmen will temporarily replace an Army attack and reconnaissance helicopter battalion set to pull out in March.

The 35th Fighter Wing didn’t release a specific date but said the Misawa deployment would begin later this month.

The Army’s 1st Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment, nicknamed "Half-Attack," will leave Camp Eagle in Wonju, South Korea, this spring for a new home at Fort Carson, Colo. The troops will deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan later this year.

The unit, which flies the AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopter, has 24 aircraft and about 360 soldiers. It’s been stationed in South Korea since November 1994 as part of the 2nd Infantry Division.

Last year, the U.S. military said the Apache battalion’s close-air support mission would be picked up by 12 Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II attack planes. It later decided to replace the Apaches with F-16s because of structural concerns over the A-10 airframe.

The 4th Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment at Camp Humphreys in Pyeongtaek will remain as the Army’s lone Apache unit in South Korea.

"The deployment of the 13th is aimed at balancing assets to support regional security in the Asia-Pacific theater and meet the needs of the ongoing global war on terror," said Master Sgt. Allison Day, a 35th Fighter Wing spokeswoman.

While in South Korea, the squadron and support personnel will conduct standard training to keep flying proficiencies and tactical requirements current, she added. That will include sharpening their air-to-air and air-to-ground roles.

The rotational move "keeps the F-16s within the region and close to Japan as opposed to out-of-theater deployments that have previously been conducted," Day said. "(But) as a matter of operational security, it is our policy not to discuss the details of specific operational or training missions."

In May 2007, the 13th Fighter Squadron and support airmen deployed to Balad Air Base in Iraq.

More than 300 airmen with Misawa’s 14th Fighter Squadron are wrapping up a five-month tour to Balad. No return date has been announced.

source: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=60572

Some interesting new info. Squadron deployment to be upped by an extra 2 jets and my guess is that there also announcing the squadron will get an Expeditionary status, rather than a complete name/number change.

Star & Stripes wrote:

13th Fighter Squadron to bring more jets to S. Korea

By Franklin Fisher, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Wednesday, February 11, 2009

OSAN AIR BASE, South Korea — The fighter squadron to deploy from Japan to South Korea this month will include 14 jets and about 400 airmen during its six-month tour, officials said Monday.

Last week, the Air Force said the squadron would deploy with 12 F-16 fighters, but on Monday said it had upped the number of jets to 14.

The planes and airmen of the 13th Fighter Squadron at Misawa Air Base in Japan will spend six months in South Korea to take up the close air support role currently held by an Army Apache helicopter unit — the 1st Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment at Camp Eagle. The regiment will move to Fort Carson, Colo., this spring.

"Our primary goal is to ensure there’s no gap in capability, which this deployment does," said Col. Mike Chandler, chief of staff of 7th Air Force (Air Forces Korea).

The F-16s to be deployed "more than provide the necessary firepower for us to defend the Republic of Korea."

The fighter squadron will be assigned a new name, yet to be announced, during its temporary deployment, 7th Air Force spokeswoman Lt. Col. Rene White said Monday.

The Air Force said that for security reasons it will not immediately disclose where in South Korea it will base the squadron.

Besides pilots, the squadron’s personnel complement will include mechanics and other support personnel.

The move will require no facilities construction to accommodate the squadron, Chandler said, but additional police may be needed to pull security duties.

After the Apache helicopter battalion moves to its new stateside home, its troops will deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan, the U.S. military has said.

The Army will still have one Apache battalion in South Korea, the 4th Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment, which is at Camp Humphreys in Pyeongtaek.

source: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect ... icle=60610

This whole question of 'replacing' the A-10 with F/A-16 was explored in the mid/late '80's and it was found totally unsuitable, so what is so different today?

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This whole question of 'replacing' the A-10 with F/A-16 was explored in the mid/late '80's and it was found totally unsuitable, so what is so different to

This is only temporary, and they're not taking SLATs out of the theater, they're taking Apaches, I agree, it's not the best fix, but I think it would be more economically feasible to use the Misawa Vipers over moving a whole new set of Apaches from Campbell or Bragg.

ptplauthor wrote:

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I'd rather have Apaches taking out early warning radar sites than F-16's, unless they're cloaked with that super duper Israeli cyber warfare wizzamajig. Surprised

Even with the IDF technology, the Apache can do something the Viper can't--loiter in one exact place and wait--if I had a choice between having Longbows wipe out the radar sites or Vipers, I'd take the Longbows every time--they're sneaky enough to get in, blow the site, and RTB with a much lower chance of detection than the Vipers. I'd stick with the plan they used to open ODS, then let the Vipers go after the divisional and corps-level CPs.

Desert Storm opened up with the Apaches taking out TWO FIXED radar sites... the rest of the hundreds of radar and SAMs sites were taken by F-4Gs and other AGM-88 equiped with aircraft. ALLIED FORCE had Wild Weasel F-16CJs that took on the SERB radars and SAMs and later on F-16CJs were the primary SEAD assets for Iraqi Freedom with four squadrons.

Your not going to find mobile SAM sites with the Apaches unless your lucky and Army pilots do not fly SEAD. So you might want to reevaluate how you would use your Apaches - in fact read about the one Apache Battalion that got shot up during Iraqi Freedom because they decided to let go of Air Force top cover when they went after one of Iraqi's front line divisions.
Theres a reason why we have F-16 Wild Weasels.

I know the Apaches weren't the only ones taking out the EW radars on the first night, but they do have the ability to hover within range of a site, and then pop off a few missiles. I wasn't advocating using the Apache for SEAD--I know that mission requires speed and maneuverability that no helicopter has. But the helos do have the ability to get in low enough to get lost in ground clutter, and then stalk their targets, that's what I was trying to say--having Apaches in country for quick, stealthy strikes that can knock the enemy radars back far enough to let the Wild Weasels go in after the IADS.

Weren't the radar strikes by the Apaches at the start of ODS vital to open up the ingress route to Baghdad?

I'd also like to say thanks for helping me get this stuff straight--it's helping make my manuscript even more realistic.

ptplauthor wrote:

I know the Apaches weren't the only ones taking out the EW radars on the first night, but they do have the ability to hover within range of a site, and then pop off a few missiles. I wasn't advocating using the Apache for SEAD--I know that mission requires speed and maneuverability that no helicopter has. But the helos do have the ability to get in low enough to get lost in ground clutter, and then stalk their targets, that's what I was trying to say--having Apaches in country for quick, stealthy strikes that can knock the enemy radars back far enough to let the Wild Weasels go in after the IADS.

Weren't the radar strikes by the Apaches at the start of ODS vital to open up the ingress route to Baghdad?

I'd also like to say thanks for helping me get this stuff straight--it's helping make my manuscript even more realistic.

Your right about opening up the igress routes but that took some planning and they had to be guided by MH-53s for that mission. Which was suppose to be a opening attack. You really think the US military is going to do that again? Especially if your looking at US and Allied Forces are being on the defensive in an invasion? You should look at Operation Allied Force and why the Apaches were not used there - unfortunately their deployment was marred during that operation and they werent there for SEAD. Read about the Apache batallion taking on an Iraqi armored division and being torn up during Operation Iraqi Freedom Why fight the next war like you fought the last one?

Forum: F-16 News

US to replace Apaches with F-16s