Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

Guys! There seem to be a lot of negative talk about the designers of the F-111 and the A-12 in this topic. I believe we all agree that the Viper was and is and big success, and low and behold, it comes from the same company. Looking at the statistical trend over time their next fighter should become an even bigger success. Why all this vinegar about what they are up to in Forth Worth? I doubt many users of this forum knows what is going on at Forth Worth, including me, so give them a break.

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Oh, the stories I could tell..... Cool

please do. I would be great to have some insight

lamoey, the Viper is one of the most successful fighter programs in history I have no doubt about that. My comments are on the recorded histories of the F-111B and A-12 programs, both USN aircraft.

IMO the F-111B fiasco was McNamara's fault, not so much GD's fault. The A-12 program was so black that its hard to tell exactly who was to blame, but I have heard some stories from people that were on the program. In any event, these two USN aircraft programs both suffered from weight problems - whether it was because of requirements, design, feature creep, or whatever. Now we hear the same problems about the JSF VTOL variants. Right or wrong, I see a pattern.

To be fair, I should also mention the F-111B was primarily Grumman's modification of GD's design. That was a no-win situation for Grumman, and nearly sunk the company. The F-14 was more or less a direct result of the F-111B. That could be an entire thread by itself....

Just saw a short clip on Discovery Wings where it was stated that the JSF may not necessarily be more capable than what it replaces, as it is really an exercise in cost cutting making "one" design work for all services, which obviously changes the goalpost significantly. i.e. make it cheep, not necessarily better.

Cheap? JSF will be anything but cheap. I thought the (current) estimated price for each JSF was going to be at least double what the latest Block 52+ costs now... anyone know for sure?

I remember in the ATF requirements phase they dictated the cost of each ATF (now F-22) could not exceed USD$35 million in 1986 dollars. Yeah right....

Honestly I don't like the way the F-35 program is going. I hate that the F-16 is being replaced when it is a prefectly capable airplane. I also wish John Boyd was still alive so he could design a spectactular airplane that could blow all current ones and possibly future ones away. Afterall, he deisgned the F-15 and 16 and look at how good they are.
The program is also over budget, overwieght and I think over rated. All joint projects have never turned out the way expected and I think this one will be no exception. I think each service should desing their own airplanes because it would be cheaper than making one aircraft for all branches. The military is nothing but politics and they are obssessed with getting money for their own weapons programs. Who knows maybe the F-35 will be scraped and the services will get the money that was invested in it. I bet that would make them happy, I mean look what happened with the Comanche. I bet the f-35 will be known as how not to develope an aircraft and not for how good it performed.
I just hope we don't end up with another F-111, F-4, B-1 or any other aircraft that was known as a failure.

I thought the F-35 is getting a 25mm 4-barrelled weapon with a 180 round linkless feed.

Polaris wrote:

i thought the F-35 is getting a 25mm 4-barrelled weapon with a 180 round linkless feed.

Polaris,

That is the info I've seen. GAU-12 w 180 rnds for the CTOL version, 220 rnds for STOVL/CV. I think it is 6 barrell tho. (Based on a presentation at a April 04 NDIA Gun & Ammo Symosium.)

Ciao,
Smithsguy

http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/jsf/jsf.htm

there's the info on the JSF's gun.

Didn't LM or another company propose to put a laser on the F-35 or something like that?

Yeah, there was some discussion in the media about the possibility of putting it where the lift fan is on the VSTOL.

Word on the street here in Viper Sq's is that the USAF WILL buy VSTOLs to replace the hawgs. That'll be interesting. I wonder if you'll go from CTOl to VSTOL the way we do from Bl 40 to Bl 50?

Be careful BS alert...

Quote:

[b]E-mail gun{/b]

James Defence Weekly
11th October 2004

The revelation in Aviation Leak & Space Trilogy and www.f-16.net about the existence of the e-mail weapon or E-Mail Gun, as it is now know, has caused consternation within US defense circles.

The first indication of this revolutionary weapon, appeared in the form of information related to the 2 Megabyte per second e-mail burst to be sent by the Lockheed Martin R/E/F/A/O/AV/H/C/SS/CV-35 /fighter /Attack /Bomber /Observation/ CAS plane being developoed for the US armed forces and allied nations.

It has now been revealed that this e-mail device is a gun that has been in development for the past 2 years by the newly formed Defense Division of MikeRowSoft Corporation. Extensive computer simulations have been carried out by MikeRowSoft and verified by senior defense officials, indicating the ability of the weapon to go through a 3 meter thick layer of reinforced concrete similar to the one used in the shell of the latest underground command and control bunkers.

This follows a debate originated by the article titled "Nuclear Bunker Buster Bombs" that appeared in page 50 of the August 2004 issue of Scientific American. MikeRowSoft Corp has indicated that all the tests reveal that the e-mail gun will be environmentally friendly and has the added advantage of being able to re-use e-mails that are considered as span, collect them in a server running Windows Longhorn, and re-direct them to the F-35 while in flight, to be fired in MB bursts to destroy the target. Another advantage is that this revolutionary new weapon will allow MikeRowSoft to resolve the issue of spam in the Hotmail service they run.

The USAF has embraced the vision, and has already indicated the new weapon will be incorporated in all the fighters in the US inventory. This follows a bitter debate in congress where scientists, weapon experts and media commentators presented evidence that indicated that actual warheads are needed to destroy targets. Senior US defense officials and others, including programme managers, dismissed this evidence and e-mailed copies of the results of the to the Congressmen, GAO, FAS, and Defense Test organisations.

But all this component of the Network Centric Warfare strategy could be in jeopardy if the Record Industry and Motion Picture association successfully sues MikeRowSoft and the US DoD.
They claim that the 2MB per second burst could allow the pilots of the planes to include an attachment to the e-mails containing newly released pirated movies or songs, the e-mails being sent directly to the bunkers of enemy military personnel allowing them to view movies or listen to songs as soon as they are released. The industry is claiming that billions of dollars could be lost in revenue if the plan goes ahead.

The USAF has also denied that a solution like the e-mail gun was needed to save the F-35. The USAF had briefed the media and revealed that the reduced performance and internal warload, caused because the plane is 2000 kg overweight, was not important or relevant anymore, since future wars would be of reduced intensity and potential enemies would wait in a que to avoid two simultaneous conflicts occurring. The USAf also indicated that since the F-35 will be even more effective due to the e-mail gun, the total number to be purchased will be reduced to 500 for the 3 services, and all the F-16s will be retired to pay MikeRowSoft for the enhanced system.

On a related development, the UK's Ministry of Defense has awarded today a contract to MikeRowSoft to integrate Windows operating system, Outlook software and wireless broadband modem to the fleet of Typhoon fighters that have been carrying out take off and landing tests with the RAF for the past 5 years. This e-mail equipment similar to the one used in the F-35 will provide an alternative weapon for the RAF pilots, since currently the plane has disabled guns installed. To be able to install this new equipment, the RAF will need to fight a bitter battle with the Disability and Discrimination Department since there is already a disabled gun installed in the plane. But this new e-mail gun could spell the end of conventional air-to-air weapons. Because of this it is proposed that all the air launched weapons in the RAf inventory be photographed and appear in a book to be produced by the Benevolent Society, and the actual hardware sold to collectors in the UK.

it definitely sounds BS.. MikeRowSoft = Microsoft (see the relation here?)

Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

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