Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

but of course there a little slow and if the russia georgia aggression get's any bigger we may have to slow them down

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Lets just hope Poland or Ukraine aren't Russias next targets, then it will get very interesting.

Ya if they decide to go and fight either of them the U.S. and ,I would think, other countrys might get worried and fight back. but from my opinion russia wouldn't win but you never know. maybe they have secret weapons that nobody knows about(maybe something like a secret fifth generation fighter)???

Much as I like my Russian vodka and MiG/Sukhoi aircraft, I would still bank on the abilities of the F-22 and the various F-35 aircraft. I think they will at least harbor the deciding edge in ACM enviroments for the time being- against all current ly known technology. Down the road, things may be different- but then again, our aircraft will advance further through upgrades as well.

Provided those nasty budget cutters don't mess things up! Rolling Eyes

So we discussed the topic and russia probably doesn't have a superior fighter(and might not have one for a while) let alone a fith generation fighter. Well can anyone else top the F-22/F-35?

Only in cheaper production cost, it seems. Mostly. Wink

I read russian aviation forums as well, and must say they just filled with scepticism considering Sukhoi products. All more or less understanding people admit that Lockheed Martin and U.S. aircraft industry made a huge jump ahead while Pogosian (Chairman of Sukhoi Corporation) was making easy money selling moded (with improrted quipment like french Thales MFD's) variations of SU-27 Flanker to India and Venezuela.

The result of this business is quite sad for them, especially for the Russian Air Force. During 8 years of extremely high budget incomes (due to cosmic oil prices) they managed to equip only 2 (two) regiments with Su-27 SM modernizations (though this is an old Su-35 version in fact, by no means a promoted Su-35 BM.) This appears to be something of 48-50 fighters if not less, compared to polish fleet of state-of-the-art F-16C Block 52 Plus Vipers.

Developments of SU-35BM and future PAK-FA go with extreme slipping. Three test Su-35BM's were manufactured so far, and one was burned due to engine fire. AESAs still cannot be put into serial production because of constant technical problems, taking into consideration that these are gonna be quite "weak" radars if we try to compare them with APG-77(V1) or APG-81.

And the most doring is that Russian Air Force is running out of A-A missiles. They have been using huge Soviet storages for 18 years, but themselves they could not produce any A-A missiles now, cause all constructing facilities were left and spread all over the former USSR territory (like Yuzhmash Bureau in Ukraine). Though their plants offer such stuff as RVV-AE for export in their brochures.

So, there is no competition between SU-35, any other Flanker derivative and real fifth generation fighters - F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II. It is just impossible.

P. S. The most shocking phrase, some of the sceptic russian military experts said was "the development of Su-35 did not manage to reach the level of avionics, targeting, radar and weapon systems that U. S. F-15E Strike Eagle had during the Gulf War in 1991.".

saintwarrior wrote:

I read russian aviation forums as well, and must say they just filled with scepticism considering Sukhoi products. All more or less understanding people admit that Lockheed Martin and U.S. aircraft industry made a huge jump ahead while Pogosian (Chairman of Sukhoi Corporation) was making easy money selling moded (with improrted quipment like french Thales MFD's) variations of SU-27 Flanker to India and Venezuela.

The result of this business is quite sad for them, especially for the Russian Air Force. During 8 years of extremely high budget incomes (due to cosmic oil prices) they managed to equip only 2 (two) regiments with Su-27 SM modernizations (though this is an old Su-35 version in fact, by no means a promoted Su-35 BM.) This appears to be something of 48-50 fighters if not less, compared to polish fleet of state-of-the-art F-16C Block 52 Plus Vipers.

Developments of SU-35BM and future PAK-FA go with extreme slipping. Three test Su-35BM's were manufactured so far, and one was burned due to engine fire. AESAs still cannot be put into serial production because of constant technical problems, taking into consideration that these are gonna be quite "weak" radars if we try to compare them with APG-77(V1) or APG-81.

And the most doring is that Russian Air Force is running out of A-A missiles. They have been using huge Soviet storages for 18 years, but themselves they could not produce any A-A missiles now, cause all constructing facilities were left and spread all over the former USSR territory (like Yuzhmash Bureau in Ukraine). Though their plants offer such stuff as RVV-AE for export in their brochures.

So, there is no competition between SU-35, any other Flanker derivative and real fifth generation fighters - F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II. It is just impossible.

P. S. The most shocking phrase, some of the sceptic russian military experts said was "the development of Su-35 did not manage to reach the level of avionics, targeting, radar and weapon systems that U. S. F-15E Strike Eagle had during the Gulf War in 1991.".

Extremely interesting, are any of these forums in English? I'd like to take a look.

Quote:

Extremely interesting, are any of these forums in English? I'd like to take a look.

Unfortunately, all those forums are in Russian. But nevertheless all serious (those who have contacts with active pilots of Russian Air Force, employees at military plants etc.) people express their deep frustration with situation in Russian Air Force and development of military aircraft. The most often discussed things include continued disability of both Sukhoi and Mig to create a "weight effective" fighters, which can carry payloads compared to their empty weights, huge dimensions and weights of radar systems, causing "big" noses of their aircraft with significant RCS, large stabilizers on their A-A missiles that also increase RCS of the aircraft they are fitted in.

Unofficial sources say that chief constructors of Sukhoi were shocked in Farnborough last year when they saw an exhibitional flight of F-22A Raptor, as some experts noticed that Raptor's supermaneuvers with the use of thrust vectoring are somewhat of "more clear and stable" than their promoted SU-30 MKI's.

If nothing else, there's the prospect of google language tools. Could we get a link?

Saintwarrior,

I'd love to see those links, really. Thanks for sharing the insight in to the State of Russian aviation design and construction.
I'd love to brush up on my Russian.

F-22 Raptor topics:

Part I: http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic2823.html
Part II: http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic5184.html

F-35 Lightning II:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic4789.html

Su-35 BM Vs. F-35 Lightning II:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic5552.html

F-15 Vs. Su-27 & Mig-29:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic5183.html

F-22 Raptor Vs. Mig-31M

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic4578.html

Tu-160 Vs. F-22 Laughing

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic5534.html

Mig-35:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic1655.html

Su-33 Vs. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic4610.html

F-22A Raptor Vs. 10 Su-35:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic2379.html

Su-35 BM thread:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic2780.html

Look for posts from guys with nicknames Breeze, Akulych (Акулыч in Russian, in Su-24 cockpit on Avatar, Reflected Sound).

Russian A-A missiles thread:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic3959.html

Serious thread is also here:

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=40368

Forum member Chizh is a developer of Lock On sim game, he maintains contacts with people working in military scientific facilities. Also read posts of Skydron, as he has good knowledge of technical aspects from latest sources.

USAF Global Hawk UAVs over Russia af far as Nizhny Novgorod (middle of Russia's territory), evidence from Russian Air Defence Radar Station operator here:

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic6314.html

Excercises of Russian Air Defence (S-400, S-300 PMU-1, TOR, BUK) fail for third years in a row:

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.p ... 3%EB%F3%EA

Translate posts of Spiritus, he is a Mi-8 SMV "SMALTA" Electronic Warfare chopper operator at these excersises and explains how he gets commands "to stop tracking S-300s, TORs and BUKs" from chief command in order to let them hit drone targets and much more.

There are plenty of such links all over Russian WWW, I'll post more later.

Is there any software method available to convert these to English or even German?

I took 1 year of Russian, 48 years ago, and memory is the first thing to go, I think.

I'd love to read these.

OL

outlaw162 wrote:

Is there any software method available to convert these to English or even German?

You should use Google language instrument, it is fairly good I suppose. Many posts contain slang language and military abbreviations, so if Google fails PM me with such posts - I will translate.

Thanks. Never used it before.

On first attempt it seems to work reasonably well.

Some specific things may be lost in translation or slang, but you can get the drift.

I'll search thru the links for the equivalent forum contributors, "SU-35guy" or "Gumski".

OL

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

SU-35... does it match up with F-22/F-35?