Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

Saw a pic in Air International of a Nighthawk in a grey colour scheme, is this the begining for the use of the Nighthawk in daylight?

Can anyone tell me about why USAF would need that when the JSF and Raptor are entering service in the near future and the aircraft can do stuff in daylight without a change in the black colour scheme. What if you got a black plane in day light, the enemy won't see because they can't see it on radar, so why bother put someone as a lookout?

And you can't hear it coming, when you hear it, it will already delivered its armaments and went home, why spend lots of dollars to change paint?

I am not against the idea but just wondering is it worth it?

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Last edited by LinkF16SimDude on May 11, 2004 - 07:43 AM; edited 1 time in total

Can anyone tell me about why USAF would need that when the JSF and Raptor are entering service in the near future

Precisely because Raptor and JSF aren't in the inventory in sufficient numbers yet and because mission requirements and current threat analyses permit the paint scheme change. If the change is for the ITO only, maybe it's because there aren't any heavy air defenses the 117s need to worry about.

What if you got a black plane in day light, the enemy won't see because they can't see it on radar, so why bother put someone as a lookout?

Because the enemy still has a matched set of Mark I Eyeballs. Used in conjuction with a good set of binoculars they can do things a search radar can't. Even fired ballistically, someone could get a lucky shot with an illicit MANPAD or AAA piece. Why give him the opportunity?

There's also the issue of heating during day ops. A black jet cockpit and avionics bay in Iraq in the summer cannot be a nice place to be for 4 or 5 hours at a time. The new scheme may help to alleviate heat buildup and cut the fuselage IR signature due to atmospheric heating.

FYI: This is all speculation on my part.

Hey there, guys! Well, it looks like the 117 is being evaluated for daytime operations. I agree with LinkF-16SimDude on the reason for the re-paint. Much easier to spot in the day when it's painted black. Check out this link.

http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=27

For more info, do a google search on F-117 gray.

Was gonna be painted grey from the very beginning. It was scientificaly proven that grey was a lower viz scheme than black.....but brass wanted it black. And btw....black dissipates heat quicker than grey, this was also proven.

Yeah, I thought I'd seen pics of early F-117s in gray, but the brass usually get what they want. I've also seen pics of F-117s in a pastel camo scheme. Black does dissipate heat better than gray - I believe that's why the bottom of the Shuttle is black and why the Habu was painted black as well. I don't see why heat dissipation would be needed on the F-117 - it's subsonic, after all and some heat seekers will lock onto the heat of a subsonic aircraft's leading edge from what I've heard. I could be wrong on this. Gray would absorb less heat in the day, but I think you'd be more concerned with visual detection in the sunlight. Should be interesting to see what shakes out over time with daylight 117 operations.

Huh...all those times I've trekked across an asphalt surface in the summer convinced me black didn't dissipate heat very well. But then again I sucked at Physics, 'specially thermodynamics. Thanks for the revelation! Smile

LinkF-16SimDude wrote:

Huh...all those times I've trekked across an asphalt surface in the summer convinced me black didn't dissipate heat very well. But then again I sucked at Physics, 'specially thermodynamics. Thanks for the revelation! Smile

You're welcome! Smile

I've spent plenty of time on asphalt parking lots when I sold cars, and yes, they are HOT! Very Happy

That's because even if a black object and a white object (let's say an asphalt pad and a concrete pad) are the same temperature, the black one will feel warmer at a distance because it radiates the heat better. Check out this link:

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/fe ... .Eg.r.html

I hope this explains it a little better. Very Happy

I think the term (property) you are looking for is surface emissivity. See this link

Thanks habu2! I've read a lot of what you've written on this site, and you're a wealth of knowledge. You're right, that's what I was looking for. Smile

Habu wrote:

Was gonna be painted grey from the very beginning. It was scientificaly proven that grey was a lower viz scheme than black.....but brass wanted it black. And btw....black dissipates heat quicker than grey, this was also proven.

I bet I know where you got this- Wink

Also, the benefit of heat dissipation was far from the reason they painted the F-117 black, it just didn't accumulate enough heat friction. That's why it ought to accomodate the low vis gray easily.

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

I believe a pastel pink was also tested with a powder blue. LM tested many colors for it's "new" stealth jet to find the least visible. They presented their (Multi-million Dollar) research to the USAF, but I guess the Brass didn't want a stealth fighter that looked like a bad Don Johnson suit!?

Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

Nighthawk goes Grey?