Forum: Air Force Life

While surfing the internet I came across a news story on CNN. It appears that a Congressman wants to ban the U.S. military from operating its own slot machines. He and others claim that there's too much risk of addiction and cite the downfall of an Army Apache helicopter pilot.

I have a few thoughts on this. I wonder why slot machines and gambling are being targeted, but alcohol wasn't mentioned. I would think that alcohol is a much larger problem for the military than gambling. I can't imagine anyone saying that the military couldn't serve liquor or beer to soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, or coastguardsmen in officers' and enlisted clubs Shocked

! I also think of the responsibilities that are entrusted to these men and women on a daily basis and that if they can be trusted with fighter jets, submarines, rifles, grenades, and nuclear weapons, they should be able to find a way to deal with slot machines of all things.

I also come to this topic with more than a bit of personal experience - I live in Las Vegas after all Wink

. Yep, out here there's slot machines in the casinos, bars, convenience stores, gas stations, and even the local grocery and drug stores. I can go down to the Strip or a locals' casino, kick back, play some slots, and drink FREE BOOZE Very Happy

! Guess what? So can everyone else in town! I don't have a problem with this, nor do I know anyone who does. I do know some people at my work who have alcohol issues, but they go to the liquor store and buy the booze themselves - they don't get it for free in the casinos.

I'm not saying that gambling can't be a problem (and a very serious one at that) for some people, I'm just asking for some common sense and logic. If we're going to take on the issue of addiction in the military, I'd say we should start with or at least treat equally the problems with alcohol along with gambling and not go out and just ban the slot machines as a knee-jerk reaction.

Please don't misconstrue this - I consider the loss of Warrant Officer Walsh to be a tragedy for him, his family and his country. That said, I believe that more might have been done to help him, but his situation should not be used to preclude others from being able to play slots in a controlled and responsible manner.

I've included the original story below and I'd like very much to hear what the rest of this site's membership thinks of this issue and this idea.

Thanks in advance Thumb

!

Original article

Drew Griffin - CNN wrote:

By Drew Griffin
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A bill in Congress seeks to eliminate military slot machines overseas that take in $130 million a year, mostly from soldiers.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Lincoln Davis, D-Tennessee, named the bill after Army Warrant Officer Aaron Walsh, a decorated Apache helicopter pilot who became addicted to gambling on military slot machines.

Walsh eventually was discharged from the Army. He committed suicide after several failed attempts to break his addiction.

The Defense Department uses slot machine revenues to pay a small portion of its morale, welfare and recreation programs.

Davis said the money raised off the gambling of soldiers is not worth the risks.

"If American men and women are willing to serve our country overseas we should not be dependent on them to pay for recreational activities they deserve," Davis said in a written statement. "The risks are simply too high and too many to ask that of our soldiers."

The bill's introduction comes after Walsh's story was featured in a CNN investigative report. His widow, Carrie Walsh, described how her husband's life spun out of control while the military refused to intervene.

"The military has this culture of taking care of their own," Carrie Walsh told CNN. "But it seems like when it comes to this, they just profited from his addiction and then threw him away."

Carrie Walsh said that in 2005 her husband lost more than $20,000 in military slot machines. He went AWOL, only to be found sitting in front of a video slot machine on a military post in Seoul.

He was forced to resign from the Army and spent time homeless on the streets of Las Vegas, Nevada.

In 2006, Walsh returned to Maine and tried to reconnect with his wife and their two small children, but his gambling addiction continued. On September 26, 2006, Walsh, 34, went to Maine's Baxter State Park and killed himself with a gunshot to the head.

The Army operates 3,000 slot machines on overseas posts, raising $130 million in revenue each year. Other branches of the military operate their own gaming programs.

University of Illinois business professor John Kindt, who has studied gambling addictions and the military, agrees with Davis that the money raised is not worth the risk. He says the military should find other ways to entertain troops.

"It shouldn't be about exploiting our service personnel and putting families and their children at risk," he told CNN.

In a statement released by the Pentagon earlier this year, Undersecretary of Defense Leslye Arsht said gambling on bases and posts provides "a controlled alternative to unmonitored host-nation gambling venues and offers a higher payment percentage, making it more entertainment oriented than that found at typical casinos."

The Warrant Officer Aaron Walsh Stop DOD-Sponsored Gambling Act would prohibit the military from operating slot machines on military bases. The legislation was introduced Wednesday afternoon.

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It is a tragedy that WO Walsh took his life. However, the military did not cause him to be addicted to gambling. There are gambling oppurtunities everywhere so people would have the chance to gamble no matter what. His wife said the military refused to intervene, with all respect, how do we know what happened? Did he ask and got refused? Did he, like a lot of addicts refuse to acknowledge his gambling addiction until it was too late? This is another example of a trend to blame anyone or anything for what happened (another Democrat). The military was no mare respeonsible then a pencill is for my spelling errors.
Alcohol has bee complete deglamorized in the military, clubs having to obey the laws of the state as far as underage drinking. Unit get togethers are a lot less often and a heck of a lot more controlled then it was in the past. Which is not a bad thing.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

They really aren't any significant benefits from gambling. Some people get some recreational benefits by gambling, however the benefits can almost always be gained by other methods with less risks.

The over all harm by alcohol is great, however a large percentage of the population benefit from alcohol. Some people can occasionally self medicate with alcohol. I would rather have someone go on harmless bender, then see them become violent because of anger or depression. However benders are not always harmless it largely depends on the conditions and the individual. Alcohol can also help people socialize and take a occasional mental vacation from work, that sometimes can be a much-needed safety valve and change of pace. Alcohol can be a very useful tool, as long as is not used to frequently, intensely, under the wrong conditions or for the wrong reasons (of course it also depends on a person's mental and physical conditions).

There are some people that can use alcohol effectively as a short-term crutch, however if it is excessively used it can become a quagmire (counterproductive). Alcohol is the only fairly widely accepted legal drug that can be used as a social primer or to self medicate physical or mental pain.

Alcohol can sometimes be used to treat short-term mental or physical pain. However it is best that alcohol only be used as a stopgap measure until there is natural healing, a more reasonable solution found, or professional help.

To some alcohol has a religious significance, to ban it, could be considered an infringement of religion.

The media and public opinion on alcohol seems to be bipolar, that it is some sort of evil menace or some great harmless savior. The answer is a little of each and somewhere in the middle. For some people it is a scourge, for others it is a benefit, for most it is a little of each.

DORF,

I'm right there with you. Glad to hear that the alcohol is a bit more controlled than some of what I've heard Smile

.

ATFS_Crash,

I get what you're saying, but I have to say that I wasn't actually talking about banning all alcohol - especially the religious stuff which was still allowed during Prohibition.

I've been there and done that with just about every story known to Man about alcohol short of having my stomach pumped even though sometimes I think that might have been a good idea Wink

. I've been keel-hauled by Captain Morgan a few times and I've learned just how quickly Jeremiah Weed can teach you a lesson as well Drool

. I make sure to drink in moderation, especially considering some of the things I've seen happen to others.

As far as gambling, I've got my own rules - only put in the machine what I'm willing to spend on that night's entertainment and only keep that much on me. It's worked so far Wink

.

I get what you're saying about the lack of benefits of gambling, but I've gotta say that I disagree. There's something special about hitting a big streak playing blackjack with a bunch of cowboys from the National Finals Rodeo, hitting a jackpot or bonus round on a slot machine, or hitting three bets at once on Roulette Cool

. I've yet to find this anywhere that the risk is not physical. Come to think of it, it does come from the risk vs. reward bit but channeled into money. Sometimes it really helps out with things in a theraputic way to go out with $20 or $40 and have a grand night of fun! And that night of fun can certainly break the hold that a down week has had on you!

It's all about moderation and self control when it comes to drinking and gambling, but this can be applied to many other areas in life as well. Don't drive too fast, even if your car can go 100MPH+, don't eat a whole gallon of ice cream, etc.

The biggest point I'm trying to make I think can be summed up like this - Don't blame the object or the person who creates something or makes it available for use - blame the person who misuses it. I understand that addiction often requires intervention (helped out with that a time or two), but I can't see anyone responsible for the person's actions other than themselves. If this were a racecar for rent and he went down the same road, so to speak, losing all his money from buying hot laps or getting speeding tickets, nobody would be calling to an end to that program.

See what I'm saying?

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

I agree that it sounds like you're pretty responsible at gambling. If you're only spending a small and reasonable portion of your paycheck that you are willing and can afford to lose then I would consider it fairly responsible.

As I said before I'm not disagreeing that there isn't some benefit to gambling (mainly psychologically) my point is there are other types of activities that are likely to be better than what is conventionally thought of as gambling.

I don't feel any need or desire to play any gambling games. I figure real life has enough of its own gambling involved. Everybody gambles everyday in some way. The route that you choose to take to work can be a gamble. Whether you get more education or what type of education you choose can be a gamble. Whether you reenlist. Whether you asked for transfer. Whether you go out on a date. Whether you get married. Whether you have kids. Every time you fly. The thing as to do it rationally and logically to eliminate as much of the risk as possible and make it as much science as possible.

If you try that at the casino and you are good at it, they call it card counting, and they can kick you out and bar you, if you try to come back they can charge you with trespassing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

I don't think our views are really that far apart. I think I'm just on the other side of the line. I respect and understand your view.

parrothead wrote:

While surfing the internet I came across a news story on CNN. It appears that a Congressman wants to ban the U.S. military from operating its own slot machines. He and others claim that there's too much risk of addiction and cite the downfall of an Army Apache helicopter pilot.

I have a few thoughts on this. I wonder why slot machines and gambling are being targeted, but alcohol wasn't mentioned. I would think that alcohol is a much larger problem for the military than gambling. I can't imagine anyone saying that the military couldn't serve liquor or beer to soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, or coastguardsmen in officers' and enlisted clubs Shocked

! I also think of the responsibilities that are entrusted to these men and women on a daily basis and that if they can be trusted with fighter jets, submarines, rifles, grenades, and nuclear weapons, they should be able to find a way to deal with slot machines of all things.

I also come to this topic with more than a bit of personal experience - I live in Las Vegas after all Wink

. Yep, out here there's slot machines in the casinos, bars, convenience stores, gas stations, and even the local grocery and drug stores. I can go down to the Strip or a locals' casino, kick back, play some slots, and drink FREE BOOZE Very Happy

! Guess what? So can everyone else in town! I don't have a problem with this, nor do I know anyone who does. I do know some people at my work who have alcohol issues, but they go to the liquor store and buy the booze themselves - they don't get it for free in the casinos.

I'm not saying that gambling can't be a problem (and a very serious one at that) for some people, I'm just asking for some common sense and logic. If we're going to take on the issue of addiction in the military, I'd say we should start with or at least treat equally the problems with alcohol along with gambling and not go out and just ban the slot machines as a knee-jerk reaction.

Please don't misconstrue this - I consider the loss of Warrant Officer Walsh to be a tragedy for him, his family and his country. That said, I believe that more might have been done to help him, but his situation should not be used to preclude others from being able to play slots in a controlled and responsible manner.

I've included the original story below and I'd like very much to hear what the rest of this site's membership thinks of this issue and this idea.

Thanks in advance Thumb

!

Original article

Drew Griffin - CNN wrote:

By Drew Griffin
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A bill in Congress seeks to eliminate military slot machines overseas that take in $130 million a year, mostly from soldiers.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Lincoln Davis, D-Tennessee, named the bill after Army Warrant Officer Aaron Walsh, a decorated Apache helicopter pilot who became addicted to gambling on military slot machines.

Walsh eventually was discharged from the Army. He committed suicide after several failed attempts to break his addiction.

The Defense Department uses slot machine revenues to pay a small portion of its morale, welfare and recreation programs.

Davis said the money raised off the gambling of soldiers is not worth the risks.

"If American men and women are willing to serve our country overseas we should not be dependent on them to pay for recreational activities they deserve," Davis said in a written statement. "The risks are simply too high and too many to ask that of our soldiers."

The bill's introduction comes after Walsh's story was featured in a CNN investigative report. His widow, Carrie Walsh, described how her husband's life spun out of control while the military refused to intervene.

"The military has this culture of taking care of their own," Carrie Walsh told CNN. "But it seems like when it comes to this, they just profited from his addiction and then threw him away."

Carrie Walsh said that in 2005 her husband lost more than $20,000 in military slot machines. He went AWOL, only to be found sitting in front of a video slot machine on a military post in Seoul.

He was forced to resign from the Army and spent time homeless on the streets of Las Vegas, Nevada.

In 2006, Walsh returned to Maine and tried to reconnect with his wife and their two small children, but his gambling addiction continued. On September 26, 2006, Walsh, 34, went to Maine's Baxter State Park and killed himself with a gunshot to the head.

The Army operates 3,000 slot machines on overseas posts, raising $130 million in revenue each year. Other branches of the military operate their own gaming programs.

University of Illinois business professor John Kindt, who has studied gambling addictions and the military, agrees with Davis that the money raised is not worth the risk. He says the military should find other ways to entertain troops.

"It shouldn't be about exploiting our service personnel and putting families and their children at risk," he told CNN.

In a statement released by the Pentagon earlier this year, Undersecretary of Defense Leslye Arsht said gambling on bases and posts provides "a controlled alternative to unmonitored host-nation gambling venues and offers a higher payment percentage, making it more entertainment oriented than that found at typical casinos."

The Warrant Officer Aaron Walsh Stop DOD-Sponsored Gambling Act would prohibit the military from operating slot machines on military bases. The legislation was introduced Wednesday afternoon.

Typical moronic thinking. 1 casualty so it's all bad. I guess we will ban cars next. Makes sense.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

Now just because I am against gambling in logic, principal and morality; doesn't necessarily mean I go along with the people that think game gambling should be removed from the posts.

I know that may sound strange but I'm still on the fence on the issue.

It is human nature for people to have some vice. So there is some logic to allowing some limited vice at the posts, so they can be in a safe controlled atmosphere where their comrades in superiors can keep an eye on things in a relatively safe and fair setting. It's best to have some recreational activities and vice on base otherwise human nature will draw the soldiers to civilian places where there is more risks for the soldiers and political embarrassment for the military and government.

It's much like having a dog, child or spouse, if you give them some freedom in a controlled atmosphere they are more likely to be happy, cooperative and productive; then if you keep them caged up all the time. If you keep them caged up all the time, then when they do get out they are more likely to run rampant, get in trouble or runaway.

During World War II the military even tolerated some (off-base) prostitution in some cases as long as it was the government approved brothels, that were checked and certified for disease and monitored for other criminal activity.

I think smoking cigarettes is stupid and destructive, however I feel if an adult wants to smoke in a safe place off-duty in the open air or at home that they should have the right to do so.

Back in 1980 a female Lt called her Congressman to shut down "A-Town" at Kunsan. The CONGRESSIONAL investigation revealed that "A_Town" was OFFICIALLY the NCO Club Annex and could not be shut down.

Forum: Air Force Life

No more military slot machines?