Forum: General

thunder85 wrote:

but ya gotta admit, if you could link, the USAF would have an easy source of extra income! lol

2! Wonder if they'd take VISA or MasterCard? Wink

Maybe keep a flyable Block 15 sedan handy for just such a task?

Got no pilots available to take the taxpayer up? Gimme a call!! I'll give 'em an E-ticket ride! Thumb

F-16.net Sponsor

newbie33 wrote:

I am less than educated on the politics surrounding military aircraft. That being said, I am wondering how difficult it is for a civilian to arrange a backseat ride in an F16. My father is a pilot, and it is his dream (as it is MANY others') to one day ride in an F-16. How likely is it that his dream could come true? Who would we have to "know" and/or what is the cost?

If he is high up in political connections, or if he is news worthy i.e. famous in some way he may get the ride.
News people, Sports figures, Politicians, and celebrities are all the outsiders you'll see get a ride.
Like some others have said even people working on the jets get few rides even over their entire career.
Personally I would rather see some person who bust their butts for years get one rather than a news girl in a short skirt, but that's life. Rolling Eyes

ACMIguy wrote:

Personally I would rather see some person who bust their butts for years get one rather than a news girl in a short skirt, but that's life.

Nothing p*$$ed me off more than seeing VIPs, or some cup cake from the local news get a ride before the Crew Chiefs. I think we've beaten the pecking order for rides, within the AF to death on this site, but suffice it to say that no one deserves an incentive ride before the Crew Chief, whose primary job is to keep that bird Code 1 and flying. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. I would love to see it change. It'll happen when they make me King of the AF...

Lol, ive even heard bill engvall got an F16 ride.... you know they can charge for rides, i can see it now.... "F-16 ride. 100 dollars only, not available in all fifty states, not responsible for the loss of your lunch!"

I guess I was never political enough (read: a$$-kisser) to get a Viper ride. Even when I retired, the excuse I got was "the incentive ride program is just that--an incentive to do well in the future. It is not a reward for retiring people."

Good thing I can fly my own airplane--I did fly the F-16 sim enough to know beyond all doubt that I can fly the real airplane and land it and give it back with no damage to it. At least I know what it's like to go flying.

Having said all that, as long as things in the USAF are going as they are, the maintainers will be the LAST people to get "incentive rides". I don't know how many times our Tub flew with an empty back seat. Think they could have found a maintainer to fly in it that day????

Do I sound bitter? You bet I do. There is NO EXCUSE for a two-seater to EVER fly with an empty back seat. All pilots seem to agree with this theory until they get higher up in the command structure, then they mysteriously change their tunes. It's sorta like "I can fly these things all I want. I've got mine; you go get yours".

SixerViper wrote:

I guess I was never political enough (read: a$$-kisser) to get a Viper ride. Even when I retired, the excuse I got was "the incentive ride program is just that--an incentive to do well in the future. ".

So all of us who got an incentive ride were a$$ kissers?

I can understand your frustration, but I am not a$$ kisser, anyone that has worked with me or for me will tell you that.

Speaking for myself, I was lucky at times, to that I would agree, I think all of maintenance should ride before anybody else on base. I won a few of those battles and discussions (debates) with my commander at the time and I know I was able to get some folks a ride here and there throughout my assignments (they were not a$$ kissers either, just hard workers who had supervisors that fought for them).

If that was kissing a$$ then I have misunderstood the meaning all these years and I am guilty of helping them, so be it. But I know your a bit bitter, I fully understand but to call the folks that did luck out a$$ kissers, well...your wrong in my opinion and its uncalled for.

IN any event, you do fly now as I do so I know you still get your thrills and fun times but I agree, there is nothing like flying in your own F-16 - sorry you missed out, I am sure you earned it along the line.

Well said, Meathook Thumb

SixerViper wrote:

I don't know how many times our Tub flew with an empty back seat.

I agree with you there, and I always hated to see that...and you know, if it came down to it, they could put a rider in the empty hole, and the pilots could fly their mission (DACT, etc.) with no problems, provided the rider had the proper security clearance.

Again, when I'm king of the AF...

Actually, it's not that easy to just jump in the tub.....you have to understand that if you don't have chamber currency we can't fly above 180 (18,000') which reduces what we can do. So, if we're on a Low Level, SAT, or Range Ride then it wouldn't be a big deal but anything else we're generally way above 180.......sorry, trust me it'd be great for every crew dog and flight line personnel to go but it just isn't that easy...

I agree with all the individuals who said that the maintainers should get the first rides. I happen to be one of the lucky ones who did get a ride, and most of my fellow crew chiefs that I worked with in my 10 years also got their rides. That being said, I too used to get so pissed when I had to launch out an empty back seat and didn't understand all that goes into the logistics of just one ride. Most of these missions that our pilots went on had to go to high altitude, and anything over 16,000 feet AGL you had to have a altitude chamber card to be able to participate. You also have to get a flight physical, ejection seat training, depending where you are crew servival training, not to mention the ok by your supervisor and the unit commander. In all it really does take quite a bit of planning to even get to strap in. Like I said before, I do agree that the crew chiefs should be the first to get the rides, but I do wish that they would also recognize some of the more outstanding airmen from other parts of the service, there really are some very deserving servicemembers out there.

very true....many never get to get that training or know that is a limiting factor (good point to bring up)...that's part of the reason incentive rides are planned (hard to come by), and scheduled outside normal flight training and local sorties, it all involves open time, money and aircraft availability too.

Yeah, the Chamber was the one thing I forgot about (some aviator I am Rolling Eyes

). If someone up there had their head out and unlocked for a minute, they could try to shuffle more maintainers through the chamber.

I went through once as an ACLS troop, and had my card til I got out. Then, just a few months ago, I went through again. I don't have to become current again until well after my enlistment is up. It's a one day class + chamber flight. When a maintainer has a free day, and Phys. Suppt. has a opening, they should be able to take those folks in.

Granted, there are folks who don't want to fly (scared or whatnot), and that's understandable...and then there are those who probably don't deserve a ride (Article 15s, bad EPRs, etc.) and that could weed out some, and help keep the numbers more manageable.

The point I'm trying to make here class, is that the AF could do a better job than they are doing concerning this...and again, I don't want to relight the AF pecking order for rides fire that we had here on the boards a few months ago, but suffice it to say that it should be easier for the ones who deserve a ride, and want one, to receive one. It p*$$es me off even more, now that I'm a flyer. It's definitely a privilege do this for a living, and I'd love to see some of my fellow troops get to have the opportunity to have as much fun as I'm having, even if it's just a one-off deal.

Is the chamber cert (and the card you get) something you have to have renewed periodically or is it good for the entire time you're in the service?

And do they cert you for a maximum altitude that you can't exceed?

Going from my memory (the older days per-say) my high altitude chamber card was good for three (3) years, it was a high altitude card (my chamber training took us to 50,000 feet) - that allowed me to fly in just about any aircraft (fighters available if the event became available) except something like the Blackbird (of course, no rides in that special machine were ever allowed by any joy rider).

The training I completed was good for both incentive rides and with being assigned a flying role, further land and water survival school, (egress included) allowed for a flying slot (F4 Tow target Operator back in 75 and 76).

I think the training for cargo and tanker flight status was the same with the exception of egress training (which was not needed for cargo and tanker aircraft) but I am not sure about today's AF requirements....ask "TC" he just completed flight crew training.

I bet he (TC) can tell you what is required exactly these days...it was hard but I thought it was fun too (exciting stuff), taught me allot...I never forgot (least I don't think I have)...paid off in and out of uniform.

I was able to re-new my card upon completion of training (altitude and egress) for the numerous rides I obtained while managing the 12th AF F-16 Demo Team and USAF Thunderbirds, when I trained it was at (1975) Edwards AFB and (1987) Williams AFB (which no longer exists now). I too would be interested to know if the same requirements exist today.

Forum: General

F-16's for civilians - Who can ride an F-16?