Forum: Air Power

OK lets just assme for a minute cats and dogs lived together. Here is what a Super Hornet Wing for current work done today could look like for the USAF.

1st Squadron(Attack)
24 F-18F Block II

2nd Squadron(EWO and Attack)
8 EA-18G
8 F-18F Block II (some versatility here, a regular F can do shooter and passive detection support with the G and if later funding warrants, G is just a kit that drops into an F, so the number of EW platforms is scalable for future planning/needs.

Support Squadron
12 KC-130J

Extra gear
ATFLIR (numbers as needed)
SHARP recce pod ( a few)

Munitions:
The usual dumb iron but also to include the Navy on-the-cheap solution BLU-126b low collateral bomb ( converted BLU-111 )
Precision kits for the dumb iron (usual stuff)

Yes this unit would burn more fuel per hour than an F-16 unit, but given the kind of work we do, right out of the box the Super comes pretty much ready to go. Also you would have local tanking, light cargo and EW support organic so less coordination is needed from outside agencies to do a days work. The ATFLIR works now and is really good, and then you have all the Block II nice avionics. The above might be a little aircrew heavy also, however the back seat of the F offers a really nice attack setup and this would be good for extra coordination, CAS, backseater looking at feeds from other platforms (UAVs) etc etc. Self protection gear on the aircraft is good. The SPO could be handled by the Navy so no need for a USAF SPO for this type accept some liason. Common training and being a "Joint" platform. We have F-22s so A2A first day of the war stuff would be no problem. The G besides being a typical high band and low band subverter and jammer can handle a lot of small war com subversion stuff.

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Call me nuts, but I would love to see the USAF buy some Rhinos. Yes, they are getting the F-22. But they are not getting enough of them to replace the F-15 on a one to one basis. Not even close. Rhinos would complement the Raptors very, very well. Considering all of the weapons they carry and the data-link capability they have, it would be fun to see what 4 of them paired up with a couple of Raptors could do in the BVR arena against an enemy threat, especially once the USAF gets the new 100nm range ramjet missile. I'm sure it would be impressive, with the Raptors acting as an AWACS and passing off firing data to the Rhinos. Considering the Rhinos can carry up to 10 (or even 12 BVR missiles), they could sure sling a helluva lot of ordnance in the bad guy's direction. Of course some would say an F-15 with upgraded radar could do the same thing. And it pretty much could. But many F-15's are getting lots of hours on their airframes. They aren't gonna get any younger. Meanwhile, the Supers would be brand new and could serve well into the future. Those Block II and Block III versions are gonna be some serious badasses too.

That said, as impressive as the Rhino is proving to be in terms of A2A and mud moving, the real benefit the USAF could gain would come from acquiring some EA-18G's. They have really been lacking in that area since the late 90's, when the EF-111 was phased out without a replacement coming online. And it's doubtful any F-22's will be converted into this role due to their incredibly small numbers. That makes the EA-18G the perfect choice from where I'm sitting.

I could see them going after a few G models. They could use them. But as much as I'd like to see them buy some E's and F's, it probably won't happen. They have the F-15, F-16 and the new F-35 soon to be added as well. I'm just not sure they could get the funding to buy more aircraft with redundant capabilities to those already in service. But I really, really love the Rhino. It offers a LOT of stuff for it's relatively modest pricetag (by today's standards anyway).

Oh my, Elp a Rhino convert? Nice PICs by the way. I absolutely would love to see more Rhinos and I have got to agree with Fox, the air force would be wise to buy 50 or 60 of the Shockers.

Your AEF wing is interesting but I think that's one of the reasons why we have aircraft carriers. That's what they do with those very aircraft. Maybe we need more than 10 - 11 after all?

Yeah, all variable of course. I mean there are some inland bases, in Iraq etc or any number of other things where a carrier is off doing something else and or because of the size of a campaign, the 4 acres of aircraft carrier space of multiple carriers still isn't enough for the number of aircraft needed yet there are available friendly fields. blah blah blah.

Example, I could see a package like the above flying out of lets say the UAE where a coalition allowed it as part of a bigger op and where the above package pulls some stress off of the bigger fixed wing tankers. Ditto if lets say you had to dump an AEF package into Clark field in the P.I. or something. Or anything else you can think of.

As much as I like the SH I think I would rather see the air force buy more Raptors and speed up introduction of the F-35. Baring that I think fitting F-15s with all the toys would be a better option. It could do everything the SH can do with the only drawback that I could see is rough field performance.

I do however think that Shockers would make a great replacement for SEAD. It's one of the places where the air force, navy and marines could benefit by sharing resources. Buy say 120 - 130 of them and use (heavens no!) mixed air crews.

On a side note and slightly off topic. Assuming all things going according to plan what do you think of the air force buying F-35Bs (especially useful for your AEF) and F-35Cs and save the F-35As for export.

Thumper, interesting comment about the F-35C.

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer obviously, but just how beneficial would the larger wing of the F-35C be to the aircraft in general, not just for carrier takeoffs and landings? I'd have to think the larger wing would allow it to carry more goods. And isn't more wing area always a good thing for maneuverability and agility?

Again, I am just a novice looking at the two airplanes and trying to compare them with what knowledge I have of fighter aircraft. But unless the extra weight of the C model (beefed up for carrier ops) and it's larger wing negate the benefits of having the bigger wing, from where I sit, it seems to be the best design with most capability. The wings on the A model look really, really stubby.

Well I'm no expert either (at least I'm honest) but I would think the C would offer several advantages over the A.

1. Greater range
2. Better wing loading
3. Better rough/short field performance

Disadvantages

1. Greater cost (perhaps not as great since the production run would increase?)
2. Possible decreased performance due to higher weight
3. Need to have sub-types (probe and drogue/boom receptacle)

Bigger picture LM could dumb down and cheapen the A for better export potential.

Forum: Air Power

Tactical AEF Wing For the USAF