Forum: F-16 Procedures

Looks like 3 darts were dusted off this week USAF, Turks, and Koreans

What’s the fix since we are #1 in all that happens with the jet

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I have a fix ....give all crewchiefs shotguns...and all the shells we want. I promise will will fix the BASH problem.

Not to start a fight....but, how/why is a Crew Chief #1 with ALL that happens with the jet? Don't you think that is a bit short sighted? I am saying this as a former Crew Chief turned pin head so I've been on both sides of the fence. It takes many shops to make a Viper fly. You can take a specialist & make him/her a proficient Crew Chief in about a month (launch/recover, BPO/PR, fuel, etc), but you can't make a Crew Chief a specialist in the same amount of time. I enjoyed my time crewing a jet, but being an Avionics troop is far more challenging.

On your thread...who knows what the fix is? Unfortunately, Vipers go down from time to time. If I remember correctly some years back the USAF alone lost like 15 Vipers.

Vader7043 wrote:

Not to start a fight....but, how/why is a Crew Chief #1 with ALL that happens with the jet? Don't you think that is a bit short sighted? I am saying this as a former Crew Chief turned pin head so I've been on both sides of the fence. It takes many shops to make a Viper fly. You can take a specialist & make him/her a proficient Crew Chief in about a month (launch/recover, BPO/PR, fuel, etc), but you can't make a Crew Chief a specialist in the same amount of time. I enjoyed my time crewing a jet, but being an Avionics troop is far more challenging.

On your thread...who knows what the fix is? Unfortunately, Vipers go down from time to time. If I remember correctly some years back the USAF alone lost like 15 Vipers.

Yes it only take a short time to make someone a crew chief but to make someone a tactical aircraft maintainer take much longer. Its a lot more to this than launch and recovery. I've been a Crew chief all my career and I've dabbled in all shops with the exceptions of weapons. We all have unique challenges in our respective career fields. Sorry but there ain't nothing easy about doing an EPU in 20 degree weather. How about troubleshooting endless parts throughout the start system trying to remedy a no start problem. I'd like to see a spec master a 1600hr gear change in 1 month.

As far as the #1 with the jet question. Who do expeditors, pro-supers, pilots, or anyone else ask for when there is a problem with the aircraft? Not the weapons 3 man or NDI. Who manages the aircraft, its forms, DDs, keeps track of the acfts TNB/FOM? Not some backshop sheetmetal troop. Who signs the BPO/PR off telling the world that the acft is ready for another day of flying.

I'm not saying other career fields aren't important, I hate shooting wires and couldn't imagine being a spark chaser, but in the end when it comes to knowing the aircraft and all that going on with it crew chiefs are the first people to be sought out.

Simple answer for you all...go pick up a flyers forms at the end of the flying day and make a tally of all inspected by and corrected by blocks in the acft forms. Of that number, figure the number signed by a crewchief versus other specialties.The answer will be staring back at you from the paper. Thats why were looked for when a jet needs fixed and pointed at when a jet goes down. Evil or Very Mad

It takes a lot more than a crew chief to say the jet is good to fly. I don't care what any crew chief says, if something's wrong with my system it ain't flying. It's pretty naive of anyone from any aircraft maintenance afsc to say that their job is more important than the next guys. I know alot of cool mofo's in the amu's but every now and then i'll be trying to tear out some expired explosives and some new a1c will decide to run his mouth when one of my crew tells him he's gotta move something.

No offense there egressredx but give me an egress T.O. and you could go home. BTW...it is a crewchief that says the jet is good (alot of times anyway, not all Pro's are CC's). He's called the Pro-Super and signs off the exceptional release.

Last edited by egressredx on Aug 17, 2007 - 08:59 PM; edited 1 time in total

Hey, egress is a piece of cake but I don't think anyone can do it. There's alot of guys in egress that can't. God knows I can't be that guy standing in the rain or sub zero temps waiting for crew steps though. F*** that.

Sorry mechfromhell....as a retired crewchief and current technical instructor (one of my main duties is egress technician training) you could not just pickup a TO and do their job. Well......you could but you might just hurt yourself or someone else in the process.

No way in heck I'd want to do anything with the seat. It's about the only thing that I'm deathly afraid of. Heck, I hate even pushing the dearm handle up when the pilot forgets to. Smile

I saw an F-4 pilot accidently eject himself at George AFB in the late 80s because he was doing an aggressive seat inspection and tugged on the banana (?) link on top of the seat. He was standing in the seat and went through the canopy. His backseater was strapped in and received severe burns from the rocket motors, and the Crew Chief was blown off the ladder. All ended up okay after some hospital time (CC treated and released). I don't like ejection seats. Wink

If you sign the work off, it's still the Crew Chief who says it's good to go. It's not like we're going to let the jet fly if Egress is still working it. It's not about chest thumping or my job is better than yours...we are the maintenance managers for our jet. It's our responsibility to know when everyone is done with their work and if the jet is FMC. Cheers

AFI 21-101, "Aircraft and Equipment Maintenance Management" wrote:

Para. 4.9 AIRCRAFT SECTION. The aircraft section consists of DCC's, ADCC's, FCC's, and aircraft technicians.

Para. 4.9.1 ...the DCC...posesses a 2A3X3A/B/J or 2A5X1/2 AFSC...the MXG/CC retains the authority to waive other aircraft maintenance AFSC's...

Para. 4.9.2.8 Coordinate with production superintendants, expeditors, for downtime to accomplish scheduled and unscheduled maintenance.

Para. 4.9.2.9 Manage and supervise maintenance on their aircraft and accompany their aircraft during all aspects of maintenance.

Traditionally, the DCC is responsible for the overall care and feeding of the aircraft. All the other jobs are important, of course, but they're supposed to be coordinated through the DCC for each individual aircraft. That is why the "Crew Chief" is always held "out front" over the other specialties. If you read back to WWII, when the crew chief came into being, they lead a "crew" consisting of a loader, specialist, and himself, the mechanic. They all played their role, but it was up to the crew chief to know the what, when, where, and why about his airplane.

DCC doesn't have to be a crew chief though. Just throwing that out there.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

Vader7043 wrote:

Not to start a fight....but, how/why is a Crew Chief #1 with ALL that happens with the jet? Don't you think that is a bit short sighted? I am saying this as a former Crew Chief turned pin head so I've been on both sides of the fence. It takes many shops to make a Viper fly. You can take a specialist & make him/her a proficient Crew Chief in about a month (launch/recover, BPO/PR, fuel, etc), but you can't make a Crew Chief a specialist in the same amount of time. I enjoyed my time crewing a jet, but being an Avionics troop is far more challenging.

On your thread...who knows what the fix is? Unfortunately, Vipers go down from time to time. If I remember correctly some years back the USAF alone lost like 15 Vipers.

You're obviously not a crew chief. Take a hike.

shiz302 wrote:

Vader7043 wrote:

Not to start a fight....but, how/why is a Crew Chief #1 with ALL that happens with the jet? Don't you think that is a bit short sighted? I am saying this as a former Crew Chief turned pin head so I've been on both sides of the fence. It takes many shops to make a Viper fly. You can take a specialist & make him/her a proficient Crew Chief in about a month (launch/recover, BPO/PR, fuel, etc), but you can't make a Crew Chief a specialist in the same amount of time. I enjoyed my time crewing a jet, but being an Avionics troop is far more challenging.

On your thread...who knows what the fix is? Unfortunately, Vipers go down from time to time. If I remember correctly some years back the USAF alone lost like 15 Vipers.

You're obviously not a crew chief. Take a hike.

Why does every tom dick and harry assume all that a cc does is launch, recover, and fuel. How about trouble shooting start problems, flight controls, gear problems, finding sh*t that nobody else on the flightline can find or will attempt to find, and swap motors. I haven't launched or recovered a jet in about 2.5 years now.

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Attention all crew chiefs